Granath
2854
With all due respect, it is.
A monopoly is either perfect (i.e. utilities) or becomes one by being the market dominant force while engaging in monopolistic behavior. Examples of that would be creating artificial barriers to entry. Or using its market-dominant position to artificially crowd out competitors in related businesses (this is what got Microsoft in the EU with their browser). Or setting / dictating the market price. Steam has engaged in none of these behaviors. Lordkosc’s post is timely:
If Steam decided to leverage its power by kicking off vendors who chose to list their products on Epic or withheld payments in a punitive action, they would be engaged in monopolistic behavior. If Steam artificially gobbled up all of the exclusives and taken a loss to prevent Epic from entering the market, they would have engaged in monopolistic behavior (which, incidentally Epic is doing). If you can show me how Steam, beyond simple market share of a market they do not own, engaged in behavior that could make them be considered as a monopoly then I am happy to listen.
But let’s just cut to the chase. The use of monopoly is generally considered a negative so by trying to label them as such an Epic supporter can then more easily justify Epic’s own anti-consumer behavior as they enter the market.
They are spending / investing money to establish their store. You can use emotional language to paint how you feel. Doesn’t make any of what you said correct though.
But hey, I’m sure it feels good to unload.
Nesrie
2856
Do you know who determines if a company is a monopoly, the court system, not Wikipedia and not the dictionary.
Do you know what never actually shows up with all the arguments, the way people throw their weight behind words like monopolistic, nearly a monopoly, almost a monopoly, isn’t a monopoly, and any hit piece or fan waving for or against Epic or Valve… actual data, on what the definition of “the market” actually is, the size of that market, their presence in it… none of that is there. It’s just a bunch of game journalists and fans screaming at each other over whether or not their view is right or wrong.
Classifying a company as a monopoly, in the legal sense, is not as simple as you are trying to make it sound like… with all due respect of course. The EU is not the world, even your example isn’t world wide by any definition.
When you think about it, they aren’t spending a penny really, just reducing reportable profit earned from Fortnite, due to the Store costs.
Sorry, but this is a very bad analysis that doesn’t even seem to know what point it’s making.
Physical copies for big games generate most of the keys the first months where revenue is higher. Add that to a significant number of key reviews being press and PR efforts (keys given for free for good reviews) and the numbers look very different.
Valve cut is 30% of the sales through Valve, that they provide distribution to other sellers is certainly useful, but doesn’t change the “effective cut”.
If you want to look at the number that matters, it’s total revenue to the dev. Most resellers sell their games at a discount and devs see less money from them even if they take a lower percentage, but this is not always the case. Direct sales through humble widgets are the most efficient, but those are extremely low except on special cases.
ShivaX
2860
I must have missed where Steam used it’s market power to crush the competition of the other 15 fucking launchers and store fronts that everyone on Earth has now. And obviously GOG was killed in the cradle before it ever got started.
Granath
2862
Except this has nothing to do with right or wrong, game journalists, Wiki or the dictionary. Monopoly is an economic term first and foremost and it has meaning. This is generally accepted among economists and that is the definition that counts. Just like the term theory is a scientific one and that is the definition that counts.
Note that your above argument is quite similar to one that is used by religious people to try to cast doubt on science in favor of the Earth being 6,000 years old. Or as a denial of the theory of evolution. Once someone claims no one is an expert and there is not a consensus they can claim a word means quite literally anything. I would be happy to receive any evidence that you have that shows Steam is a monopoly in an economic or legal sense but continued denial is not proof in and of itself.
Nesrie
2863
I knew your all due respect was a bullshit remark.
Pound sand.
And since you obviously didn’t read what i said earlier, I am not actually arguing Steam is a monopoly. Your definition is just selective bullshit.
Granath
2864
I had as much respect as I could for someone who wants to argue from a position of ignorance, bless your little heart.
Nesrie
2865
I know a lot more about monopolies than you know, and per usual, a strong argument with no data.
Tim_N
2866
Yes, in first year micro a monopoly strictly mean a single seller in a market that has no substitute goods. Then you learn about perfectly competitive markets, then oligopolies, etc… Yet, in the real world there is always a spectrum of market structures, and as @Nesrie pointed out you can’t rely on the economic definition of monopolies in court so they have their own practices.
Moreover, in an earlier post you seemed to imply that the concept of a monopoly relates to the behaviour of a firm, and not a characteristic of a market. I think this is incorrect, the concept of a monopoly precedes monopolistic behaviour, and economic models are used to make predictions about what a profit-maximising firm will do with their market power. Instead, you don’t see Steam exhibiting all of the classic forms of monopolistic behaviour because they aren’t a monopoly (probably in any sense of the word), and as far as I understand they aren’t regulated like one either.
I agree. Steam isn’t a monopoly from a legal sense because it isn’t exclusive it just has market share. Now I don’t know about all of Steam’s practices exactly… if there is coercion or something to be on steam, Etc. But it is a monopoly just because it has a ton of market share. I bet Steam will double down out and make sure it doesn’t have exclusives (seems to me there might have been a few in the past?)
Monopolies exist to varying degrees, and the overwhelming success of Steam’s dominance in the industry certainly touches on it to some degree. Clearly Epic Games and other storefronts don’t believe Steam have an insurmountable monopoly, otherwise they wouldn’t even try or be able to get started.
Having said that, I believe there’s room in the industry for the continued success of both Steam and the Epic Games store. Blasphemy according to some of you, I know!
draxen
2869
I see similar arguments on Epic vs Steam raging across all the gaming communities I frequent. People seem to be incandescent with rage at Epic. 2855 replies right now to this topic alone. People are seriously passionate about this subject. I wonder what sort of effect it is having on Epics sales figures and if there is anything they can do from a PR standpoint to turn opinions around.
Tim_N
2870
I’d love for there to be two great game stores on the internet that both had good market share, I think that would be a net good for all of us.
But the Epic platform is lacking key features (at least for me, I really like having time played tracked and achievements). The worst thing is that they are trying to build market share using the most anti-consumer technique you could come up with: exclusives. Instead of doing what a company would usually do and using their immense funds to make games on their store cheaper (admittedly they are doing this with their free games), they’re trying to force us to use it.
If Epic grow exponentially from this strategy then all future sites will buy exclusives as well to get a name for themselves, and PC gaming will start to look more like console gaming or mobile gaming.
Vocal minority and all that jazz. I’d put money down that Epic’s EGS sales are doing just fine and the PR of these communities throwing hate is not hurting them. Only Steam knows for sure but I also wouldn’t be surprised if their stats told them only a small fraction of their user base actually interacts with all the features that people like to claim EGS is useless without.
I did run into someone this afternoon who was surprised that “Steam has voicechat now?”, so maybe you’re right.
Steam’s most important feature is allowing me to pre-order games from online stores like GMG/Humble/Fanatical, somtimes at up 25% off before release.
I want to see how the Humble Store handles Epic keys later this year. Will my 10% subscriber discount work on Epic store games they will be selling?
