3381

That’s a good point. Epic doesn’t have the option of letting people be on any store and just have lower prices, because one of Steam’s relatively few restrictions is that it doesn’t allow lower prices.

3382

This is a worthwhile question to keep asking, since the market changes and Valve avoids finding another solution. It would be an entire thread by itself, though.

strikethrough is a thing that usually works well Double ~

3383

I’m pretty sure Gabe ran over Brad’s dog.

3384

If that’s the worst mistake I’ve ever made . . .

3387

Dude, please don’t be a jerk about it. Not sure what you are looking for here. I was wrong, I corrected it. i really doubt I have a trend here of misreading posts.

3389

Not addressing anyone in particular but by way of answering the questions around “but are they listening?”

I can say unambiguously the reaction of the vocal Steam enthusiasts to artists selling their work on Epic has indeed been noted by all game makers I know.

Now the decisions those artists make for selling future work may or may not be what the Steam enthusiasts want but it definitely was heard loud and clear by everyone I know.

3390

I deleted it as soon as I realized I was wrong - less than 60 seconds, I felt that was good enough, sorry if it wasn’t.

3391

Thanks for noting that Rod, good to hear.

Also thanks to all the developers that are popping in here and sticking with the discussion despite how spirited and perhaps repetitive :-) it may get.

3392

Okay, so I have a question.

Many people have argued that instead of exclusives, Epic should compete on price (and features and other things, but one thing at a time), but, if the early comment is correct, the Agreement with Steam won’t allow items to be sold on Steam for more than it’s sold at other stores.

This makes sense to me, because Steam does provide keys for free, anx a developer could sell a game for 60 dollars on steam, and than 20 dollars on GameGate and pocket the bigger percentage that GameGate gives, rather than sell it for 20 dollars on both, and hope more people buy it from GameGate, rather than steam (assuming that GameGate gives a bigger cut to developers).

But it does mean that products that are on both Epic and Steam can’t compete on price, even though Developers could sell the game for less on Epic and still make the same Revenue from it.

So, what should a developer do?

3393

From a developer point of view, especially financially, they should do what they are doing - take the money if Epic offers it. It would be foolish to do otherwise - even for most established indies, continuing to “win” is hard, you take a free one when you can get it. And as a result, I don’t think people being mad at the developers is productive.

Be mad at Epic if you feel they’re taking a lazy approach, feel they won’t safeguard your data, you really value Steam features they don’t seem interested in providing, whatever. That’s where the anger should be directed if you have any.

3394

Unfortunately, the vocal reaction (on the interweb in general) is mostly people who’s single (stated) reason is not using another (seemingly similar) app. I don’t think there’s a way to get a coherent view on the issue, I may not have even been entirely consistent myself.
Either way, I don’t think that here “we”'re boicoting devs who didn’t brake promises, and maybe not them either, so if they can whether a potentially bad call, they’ll probably be fine.

Yeah, that’s an issue. Steam isn’t the small boy fighting big retailers for a while now, that needs to change. I’m not looking, whatever price cuts there are got lost in the discussion.
The only thing makes me slightly mad at developers is what @Nesrie said, some should just admit it’s for the money instead of making shit up, but it’s a small thing. Phoenix Point breaking the wavering trust in Kickstarter is harder to accept, even if I understand the appeal. If Gallop wasn’t such a good icon, I’d be pissed.
But only selling the game elsewhere after a year doesn’t phase me, I just hope it doesn’t mean cut features because EGS doesn’t have them.

3395

Your support for Epic exclusives, where they control access to the game, is because you don’t want to see Steam discounts on futute DLC? Head explodes

Question: doesn’t this exact same DLC discounting problem exist on Epic? If I own a game on Epic, can I buy and use DLC from another storefront in the future?

Yes, you’ve made that opinion clear. Not everyone shares it.

3396

Seemingly random preamble: I despise what Gamestop did to some of my favorite stores, and I know many others here feel the same (we have a lengthy thread dedicated to it). This was part of the “rise of the console” vs. the PC. But Gamestop didn’t create that market force. They rode it, and so did Epic. I didn’t boycott anyone, but I mourned and occasionally sneered when passing by a Gamestop store.

Later on, Gamestop bought a storefront many of us enjoyed, Impulse, and turned it into their branded outreach to digital PC sales. Whether it was the grudge gamers carried, poor execution on Gamestop’s behalf, an inability to capitalize on any goodwill in the PC game market (because they had none), or some combination of various factors, they wound up closing shop. Many of us lost games. Those I lost were pretty easy to replace fairly cheaply (and Stardock did the best they could for games they still had on their site), but it still stung a bit and served as a cautionary tale.

Now with Epic creating their own digital storefront, I’m seeing some riled up feelings which remind me of those days gone by. The concern about whether Epic will stay with the storefront should the market get thin again is a valid one. It’s not that they’ll be potentially going out of business due to an outdated product model (used physical games), but rather it could be a bit of a PR mess if they can’t change enough minds and hearts and any investment in the platform might be better positioned elsewhere. This dynamic helps explain why “pro-epic” people are bothering to argue against the skeptics.

I sincerely doubt Epic will close up shop and they’d see the PR hit of doing so as far more of an expense than maintaining servers and staff. I’ll be buying Travis’ game, but I likely won’t be looking to get a large library on EGS until it’s been around a few years just to make sure; I figure that’s being prudent. Epic’s made some mistakes, but they didn’t run over anybody’s proverbial dog according to my perspective and priorities, but again I understand that’s unique to me. And I really, really, really couldn’t care less that a Chinese company is a major investor. I don’t begrudge anyone’s right to do what they want with their dollars and euros, but the notion of a boycott seems a little extreme. Still, you do you, for those who opt to.

Valve, on the other hand, is all-in on PC gaming. I expect Steam to be alive and kicking for several years to come. If consoles don’t stay walled gardens, they would easily expand there as well but I doubt any major console maker will let that come to pass. As the PC gaming market goes, so goes their fortunes and I’d think they’d be able to reduce expenses as needed if it gets a little thin at times.

3397

Probably not. If you buy a game on GoG, can you use a DLC from Steam? Or vice versa?

But that’s the point. How do you compete with Steam, when the platform has so much clot. Especially if what @tbaldree said, that games can’t be sold cheaper than they are sold on steam?

The only games I’ve bought on Origin have been exclusives. Steam, or one of the key vendors have always been cheaper. It’s pretty much the only way to get my dollars.

If that holds true for anyone else than isn’t Epic following the only logical strategy. If they want my dollars, they have to have something Steam doesn’t have, or offer me a price that Steam can’t match. And again, assuming I understand @tbaldree, Developers can not pursue a two price system because that break their contract with Steam.

By the way, if the game was sold on Epic for $30.00, it would need to be sold for $38 for the developers to get the same revenue on Steam. Would anyone pay $8.00 more dollars to get a game on steam instead of Epic? I mean, if Steam allowed you to sell the game for more on its platform that is.

Then you could have a fair argument about how much steam services are worth to you and the developer gets the same amount either way.

3398

I would pay a premium for Steam Workshop. For a game I really liked with good modding support, the answer to your question is ‘yes.’

3399

Great. It sucks that Steam won’t let you, but its nice to know.

3400

I rarely buy games at release - typically I wait until the first mini-sale, mostly because that’s when bugs are stomped out by and I have a backlog.

At that point, maybe I wouldn’t pay $8, but I wouldn’t hesitate to pay $5 more for a game I wanted on Steam, rather than it being locked in as an Epic exclusive.

Absent that choice, I’ll wait for it to be 50% off on Steam in a year or two.

3401

You seem to be articulating a problem that is unique to yourself (or not universal at the very least).

For me, I don’t need exclusives to shop across stores/platforms and I am not entirely driven by price. For instance , I recently purchased Pathway on GOG even though I could’ve picked it up cheaper on Steam because I owned the dev’s previous game there and would’ve got the bundled price. I opted to pay full price on GOG since I generally prefer their principles and I wanted to support a title that launched simultaneously on multiple platforms (especially on GOG).

While I am sure price is a big factor for consumers it isn’t always the driving force. If a game launches simultaneously across different stores for the same price some might actually pick it up on Epic to better support the devs due to the favorable revenue split. Some will pick it up on GOG because they are picky about DRM, etc.

3402

It’s definitely true that Steam has that kind of rule in place for Steam keys sold through non-Steam channels. Which is stated in their public documentation roughly as “you can’t treat Steam customers worse than other customers”.

I’m a bit doubtful about there being a general price parity / most favoured nation clause, applicable to versions of a game that aren’t delivered as Steam keys. Such price parity clauses have been common in a lot of internet- based industries, whether it’s e-book sales or hotel bookings. And European competition authorities have been slapping those agreements down.

Valve would just be begging for huge fines with general price parity requirement. It seems totally impossible to believe that e.g. Epic wouldn’t have filed a complaint. They should have no trouble getting a developer to go on the record about these secret requirements.

3403

Well here is the problem in the UK, the price isn’t even the same as it would be on steam, it’s more expensive. Metro was £10 more expensive than Steam, we never got the reduction either. We are seeing games at price points over £50 something we don’t get on steam or from any other online store like GMG. Prices are more expensive than consoles releases.

So just on price point alone it’s not good for me at all. As a consumer I am all of a sudden worse off buying these games and that’s not even comparing epic to steam.

Surely the games that are on Epic for a year can be sold at any price and then price them just before release at the price point you want on steam, you get a year of increased sales at a competitive price point and sell more copies and increased margins