4607

He was man enough to apologise to tbaldree. And tbaldree accepted it.

I feel it would be good to offer a hand to those who are down instead of keep on kicking them to make them stay down. That way, we make more friends.

4608

If the comment was only directed at one person, maybe that would be enough.

4609

In general I have said my piece in this thread and moved on. Discussion has been heated, for sure, and at times there has been disingenuous arguments presented all around. You in particular have been a culprit from the pro Epic side at presenting disingenuous arguments, as your Ooblets death threats comment above shows. To find such a thing and then present it as associating with people here who have not made such comments as a way to dismiss legitimate concerns or hesitations is, quite frankly, absurd and insulting.

Playing the martyr does your position no favors. While I disagree with your position vis a vis Epic, it is one of personal opinion. I am of a form more like Kevin. Broadly not going to use Epic, do not really like them as a company or their CEO whom I do not feel is an honest actor. However for a game like RGO or Hades I will make exceptions. So were it only a matter of philosophical disagreement that would be all there was to that.

However certain persons, you and @Brad_Grenz in particular stand out, have gone beyond that and felt the need to present either dishonest arguments, as your Ooblets death threats was, or disparage people who have the temerity to either express positive feelings towards Steam or push back against your argument that Steam has done nothing for PC gamers. As if your position on liking EGS is fundamentally tied to enforcing a notion that Steam is bad, and likewise attacking those who support it.

My own personal evaluations give me a distaste for Epic as a company, but I harbor no ill will for those who use it and neither do I fully boycott as my soon to be purchase of RGO demonstrates. What I do, however, take issue with is playing the martyr.

4610

I don’t think I am any particular martyr, nor did I attack anyone for using steam. Yes, I find steams near monopoly on game sales a bit scary because I think it allows them to charge a far higher price for their services then what the are worth, costing the developers much more then they should, making the business even more risky and less profitable.

I am sorry if you felt that this was an attack on the greater steam using community. I am also sorry if you think I am trying to be a Martyr (although I am perplexed how you got that notion). I am not any sort of Martyr, but I don’t think the system is working very well for game developers or the gaming industry as a whole, and things need to fixed, and steam’s dominance is one place to start (Unions are a better place to start, but that’s not the topic of this thread).

I do take issue with @Granath’s comments in the other thread that escalation was invitable and that its the developers own fault that they escalated such an extent that death threats are involved is the norm.

I feel like @Granath is equivalating one sarcastic remark with the gigantic blowback that occurred. Perhaps I am reading into, but it seems to argue that death threats are somehow normal and perhaps even warranted, and that no one should be surprised that it happened. It normalizes such behavior. Perhaps even that it was justified. Perhaps he didn’t realize exactly how out of hand it had gotten, to the point of leaving the developer in tears. I don’t think any business decision involving a video game should leave anyone over the age of 10 in tears.

That, coupled with his comment that only shills would defend the Developer and Epic made it seem like there no legitimate justification in defending Epic or the developer from these sorts of attacks outside of pure material gain. Again, perhaps he didn’t realize just how far it escalated.

I don’t need to have anyone to pay to say that bullying and death threats against developers is wrong.

I am sorry about the long reply, but I felt you were owed one.

And as for the threats and attacks, posted a few links above about the coverage so far.

I am sorry to drag the Ooblets thead into this, but since it is so closely tied to Epic, I didn’t see a way of not doing that.

4611

No one is arguing that. In fact, Granath even went so far as to say the opposite!

I agree with this; earlier we had someone telling another member who worked at Epic that they were wrong, and should feel bad about spreading FUD. Easy to make the assumption that someone’s got a vested interest if they’re going to that length to defend Epic.

I nearly 100% agree with Craig’s post, but with a stronger stance against Epic (I’ll happily wait for games to come to another platform, or play one of thousands of other games if they don’t). I’m not going to tell people to go kill themselves, and it’s shitty that other people are doing it. They also decided to chum the waters and then jump in the shark tank which was… not the best decision. It’s possible to be both disgusted with and not surprised by the outcome given their actions.

4612

No one on this site is justifying the death threats or any other indications of violence or harm. Anyone who suggests there is justification is just being dishonest in the conversation, and they know it.

4613

I honestly believed that Granath thought that death threats were okay and justified by the way the developer acted. There is a lot of anger when it comes to Epic and by no means is our little corner of the internet somehow immune to it.

I don’t agree with this at all. They made a tongue in cheek comment about the issue, trying to defuse it with humor.

I get the appeal of wanting to seek out things to get angry about. Venting anger is cathartic and natural, but let’s have just a little perspective about what we decide to get angry about. Look at the things going on around you and ask yourself if there might be anything just a tad more worthwhile to be upset about.

Here are just a few suggestions:

  • Climate change
  • Human rights abuses
  • The new Twitter desktop UI
  • The last season of Game of Thrones

(Those last two were jokes, please don’t yell at people about them)

So let’s remember that this is all low-stakes video game stuff we’re dealing with here. Nothing to get worked up about. And I (Ben/perplamps) will be around on our Discord to answer any questions and talk through any concerns or confusion you might still have.

I have a tough time understanding how such as an innocent set of jokes might be considered ‘chumming the water’. They are known for their sense of humor, so I was completely taken off guard when I read that there were death threats against the developers. I don’t see how the developers could have known that the reaction would be so vile and so disgusting by some in the gaming community. So, yes, I think this was a complete surprise to all but a small group that really really really wants to make Epic and all that work with Epic hurt in some fashion.

That being said, I think the language you use is pretty loaded. When you say “not surprised by the outcome given their actions.” @LockerK it really sounds like your normalizing such behavior, in the same vein that people might say ‘kids will be kids’ or ‘it’s locker room talk’ or ‘she had it coming for dressing that way’.

It’s the kind of language that people use to justify some really bad actions, so I’m saddened that people on this forum would use it at least in the context of games and developers. I’m sure you aren’t trying to justify it, but words having different meanings to different people and sometimes it’s easy to be misunderstood. As is the case (hopefully) with me and Granath.

Right now, with the death threats and attacks, it really feels like there is a minority of gamers who want to go beyond just ignoring Epic, or hoping they will fail, but go so far as to actively ruin the lives of any developer that wants to pursue a relationship with them. And that is really a little bit scary.

4614

It’s fine for people on QT3 and the rest of the internet to be angry. They don’t have to like what was said or done. Death threats is a completely different level, and I do not believe he is okay with those even if the reaction was foreseeable. You and a few others keep mixing those and attributing unwarranted reactions to the people who can see the train wreck that was going to come.

Yeah, and yet so many people did not read it that way.

Jesus Christ. You’re still doing it.

4615

What am I doing @Nesrie? What actions do you think I’m taking that is out of line?

4616

Exactly. Well said.

And I still see a clear disconnect (bordering on hypocrisy) between P&R Nesrie and Ooblets Nesrie.

You need a good sense of humor about this subject (or any subject) and the original blog post that started this mess was quite funny and honest. She was calling him an ass even before this blew up.

4617

Stop trying equate backlash to what someone wrote to racism. What the hell.

4618

It’s pure victim blaming.

4619

Yeah hundreds of years of actual death, rape, murder, the stripping of all cultural identity and the daily combat against being allowed to exist alongside real life slavery is somehow equated to 5 days of internet backlash.

Do not mix topics. Isn’t that supposedly a thing around here… oh right, that’s just a rule for me right?

4620

We both know there are varying degrees of victim-hood. Now it’s just “5 days of internet backlash?” I thought yesterday you said they’d be doxed and followed around for life.

And I’m not mixing topics. I merely know you from other areas of the forum so I think you should know better and be better than this. Only you can decide if you want to keep playing the victim or pause to reflect on your language in here.

4621

You can’t possibly even comprehend what you’re trying to compare to.

We’re done. I should never have revealed anything about what I am to you because you took that trust, weaponized it and you abused it.

4622

I thought we all knew how analogies work.

4623

I also said right before that, “I’m not going to tell people to go kill themselves, and it’s shitty that other people are doing it.”. I don’t know why you’re selectively reading and then arguing with points either made up or out of context (and no mention of your made up “everyone who defends Epic is a paid shill woe is us” argument that I quickly debunked).

If I decide to show up to a hate group rally dressed flamboyantly, it shouldn’t be a surprise if I get my ass kicked. That doesn’t make the situation less vile. I explicitly stated that the attacks were awful! When every single developer who has announced Epic exclusivity has received backlash… why is there surprise that this developer also received backlash? Then given that they tried to play it as “none of your concerns are valid, here’s some actual things to get mad about”… you don’t see how that would make people even more annoyed? And with Tim Sweeney signal boosting it to try and stir the pot more… you don’t see how that would make this blow up well beyond any reasonable response?

4624

I have refused to even peek into the whole bullshit surrounding this latest Epic kerfuffle, and I’m a little sorry I poked my head in here for reasons which remain obscure even to me, and read just the last few posts.

I can’t believe how insane people are about this whole Epic store thing. The fact that people get so riled up over the mere existence of a game storefront is proof positive to me that they have absolutely no problems worth talking about in their own lives and lack any and all perspective whatsoever.

Gamers are, sad to say, by and large trash. I often wish I had never even encountered games as a kid, but welp, I’m addicted.

4625

It’s a rule for everybody, please don’t pull turds out of the P&R pool and toss them in here.

4626

I think it’s actually very useful to analyze this. If people (and I include myself, because I get emotional about some of this stuff) can get fired up about games, what does that mean about politics? Or about other things that greatly affect the world? It means that human nature easily lets emotions reign, and perspective goes out the window.