4707

I think it can help, because the Internet hyper-connects us, and when people get together in large numbers, they become a mob. If you can dissuade some of the individuals in that mob and make them realize what they’re doing is wrong, you can help break it up.

4708

I’ve been on the Internet a long time. I call bullshit. Moreover the idea that you can win against the Internet…good luck.

4709

Never said you can win. But if you dissuade some people, you’re at least dismantling some of the mob.

4710

… But only for those specific individuals. Most people who dislike EGS’s practices aren’t poisonous raging loons, and they do not appreciate being lumped in with such.

4711

Alright I get it. It’s like pecking at the ground with your nose to dig yourself through the Earth. You’ll make “some” progress.

4712

Sure does. Not as much as getting death threats, but it still sucks.

Anyway, a bit of compassion for the people that get death threats is not a big ask in my book.

4713

No one should get death threats. Period.

Just because someone got death threats doesn’t mean their position is iron clad or off limits to criticism.

EGS boosters that belittle critics, who complain about exclusives and (lack of) functionality, should try addressing these core complaints, rather than muddying my argument with someone else’s uncivil behavior.

I understand EGS boosters like the idea of a platform with minimal commission against developers. That makes sense. I think that should not be pursued by cutting other features or engaging in exclusives.

See you all in another 1000 posts to reiterate this message.

4714

Is that the new name for Epic shills?

People who don’t hate the store have to be shills and/or boosters? Should we also call them Epic Fanboys/girls for good measure?

Even on Qt3, it’s hard to have a grown up conversation sometimes.

4715

We could call the people who buy from EGS, customers.

We could also call the people critical of EGS, critics or just skeptics.

We can leave the death threat people out of it because those are not people from this site.

4716

You all are really over-complicating this. You’re either an Epic shill or a racist, there’s really no grey area here.

4717

However compassion does not equate to supporting or validating business devisions. And just because they receive threats and comments beyond the pale does not insulate them from receiving legitimate criticism.

For example, our own Travis Baldree. I may not be thrilled with EGS exclusivity, but I genuinely wish him all the best. And I fully intend to buy his game as soon as budget allows. I do feel differently for some of the games that have EGS exclusivity, particularly crowdfunded ones who had promised Steam or other platforms. For them harsh criticism and censure* is not only acceptable, but fully earned. I don’t generally** think they are bad people for it, I just don’t approve of the choice.

*which equivocally does not include threats of any stripe

**some, however, do seem to skirt this line. And my opinion of Tim Sweeny is… not high.

4718

Ouch, that is a bit biting to my sensibilities.

I prefer the term Shopping Cart-Ethno-State enthusiast. It’s about the heritage of online shopping, not hate.

4719

Finally, someone gets it.

4720

I don’t think I can agree with this. Even legitimate criticisms directed at the developer right now would feel like kicking someone while they are down. I just don’t think I would want to add to the pain of others after a moment like this, even if my critique was 100% legit.

Out of curiosity, what is the end goal of the criticizing a developer that decides to publish exclusively on Epic?

4721

Booster - a keen promoter of a person, organization, or cause
Shill - an accomplice of a hawker, gambler, or swindler who acts as an enthusiastic customer to entice or encourage others

If you want to equate the two, that’s your call, not mine. Switch booster for supporter. I think justing saying consumer is understating the effort some out into stating the merits of EGS model.

My own preference for myself - anti-exclusive. Note that isn’t EGS specific

4722

Depends on the critic I suppose. For me it would be for Epic to improve their store features, as some things (lack product specs) are near dealbreakers.

We will not agree on this. However, changing contexts, you would not feel this way. For example, and there are other threads to discuss this topic, shooting victims. We have both, at times, come out against the deflection tactic of ‘now is not the time to talk about gun control’ after another mass shooting.

Now game store features and exclusivity deals are far less important and serious, by several orders of magnitude. But it’s the same thing. Deflecting in such a way as to preclude ever really having that conversation. If we can not talk about the issues of EGS exclusivity deals because some people are being destructive little shits on the internet about it, we will never have said conversation because there are always people being destructive little shits. That doesn’t excuse the malfeasance, these people should be facing legal ramifications, but if we allow that the actions of these delinquents to foreclose on possible conversation then that conversation will never be possible to have.

4723

To make clear they lost some potential revenue, head count of consumers, or general good will by taking that exclusivity path. Obviously it is their decision whether that is a worthwhile trade.

4724

All this, yep. Also, to communicate your feelings to other developers who may be influenced not to go with an EGS exclusive (note, I mean communicating your consumer behavior and preferences, not crazy-ass threats).

4725

I’m not talking about Epic or the store front. I’m just talking about the developers of Ooblets. Just them. Right now, I don’t think that any level of critique is appropriate. Not their blog post, not their decision to go on Epic, not the humor they used. Right now, they could go out on twitter and call me, personally, an asshole, and I won’t bat an eye. I would roll with it because I’m not getting death threats from anyone.

If you want to criticize Epic or anyone else involved with Epic, fair game, go for it. They weren’t, as far as I know, the centers of the death threats, and I have less sympathy for larger corporations with a PR department and a staff and money.

Right now, using your example of the gun control debate, and of course, being several orders of magnitude less important and serious, going after the Developers of Ooblets would be like a homophobe going after the survivors of the Orlando Night Club shooting. Sure you can feel threatened and hate their sexual preferences, but everyone is going to (rightful) think you a disgusting piece of shit (except the people that agree with you).

4726

Let me flip it to a better example that I thought of 10 minutes after my initial post.

Stephanie Meyer

Who here has said critical or negative things about her, her writing, or her creation in Twilight? Do you demy she saw some insane levels of vitriol directed at her personally? Disgustingly vile comments directed at her over the books and movies?

Now has anyone here ever criticized those movies? Have the done so without seeing them? Have they slammed the writing without ever having read the books? And what of those who had seen or read them and had strong criticism? Should they have withheld from voicing them because Meyer was receiving all kinds of inappropriate vitriol, threats, etc. from various corners of the internet?

I bet you hadn’t considered that a problem. And if you did, you basically are making the argument that anyone who receives threats or unacceptable behavior directed at them is immune from criticism.

Your homophobe example does not work. Because it is 1) about someone who has an irrational hatred 2) and is engaging in victim blaming. It is not that ‘it is the wrong time’ for that hypothetical persons comments, it is that the hypothetical persona comments are wrong in and of themselves.

And I have no skin in the game or opinion on Ooblets. It wasn’t a game I was even tracking, or really aware of. I don’t know of anything regarding their EGS deal. However I do not think ‘they can not be criticized because some people are being toxic assholes to them’ is really a position I can agree with.