That said I wouldn’t be at all surprised if it came out they slipped actual cheap drugs in homeopathic treatments, aspirin or something.
Or narcotics. “Hey, this stuff reaallly works! I feel great!”
Facepalm All I see on this thread is unscientific, ego-stroking, self-aggrandizing ignorance. Oh the irony of dozens of people posturing as scientific minded individuals who are simultaneously unwilling to do the minimal amount of research necessary to realize numerous medical uses of essential oils–you know, based on the hundreds, if not thousands of scholarly articles written on scientific studies that show conclusive evidence in favor of essential oils. It’s time to stop this sheer laziness and parroting of your friends on these issues and use the vast wealth of information available at your fingertips.
I came upon a link to this thread and humored it out of curiosity. As I scrolled through comment after comment of cringeworthy misinformation, I began to wonder whether anyone would have anything to say beyond the empty rhetoric. Perhaps someone would put forth a convincing rebuttal to the essential oil bashing. No such luck.
Before I utterly destroy your “arguments” against essential oils, first let me give you a little background as to why I even gave alternative medicine a second glance in the first place. My father indoctrinated me from an early age with unconventional ideas on human health. Around adulthood I realized he wasn’t an infallible source of information and knew the only intellectually honest thing to do was to scientifically scrutinize my beliefs. So I did.
Maybe it was laziness, or perhaps because I didn’t feel the need to be some sort of prophet of this information, but I was never in the habit of compiling the information I found. The knowledge just assimilated into my belief structure and I moved on. I’ve seen how socially destructive championing an alternative idea can be, especially when it questions people’s core beliefs and challenges the quality of what they put into their bodies. For years I’ve kept many of these ideas to myself, except in certain open-minded company.
But now I feel compelled to share what just 30 minutes of research into the actual scientific community would have yielded for you guys on the matter. What made my search somewhat more efficiently guided was to look for studies done on oils to test the validation of claims of cures to ailments I myself have already experienced, or someone I know directly has experienced. First I’ll briefly outline the condition, oils used, and efficacy. Then I’ll provide a link to peer-reviewed research demonstrating the efficacy of said oil(s) for said ailment.
EDIT: I originally had this all as one post, but the accounts and research portion was quite long. I figured it may be less of an arduous read when broken into two portions so I provided a link to a google doc with the scientific research I compiled. There are 12 points, 10 of them contain links to research validating medicinal claims for things such as accelerated wound healing, anti-cancerous properties, antiviral-antimicrobial-antifungal properties, stimulated hair regrowth, anti-inflammatory and antioxidative properties, carpal tunnel relief, etc. Don’t take my word on it, follow the link below:
(https://docs.google.com/document/d/1WsWT4sewGmp5q_GPV7y3ITHjbdgB6DDEWkbjF_kxwow/edit?usp=sharing)
So here you have it: a plethora of of scientific data on various medicinal uses of essential oils. The information clearly debunks the absurd statements made in this forum calling essential oils “bullshit,” “complete bunk,” etc. (I’m looking at you, Penny Dreadful). It’s humorous to me when you say things like, “my first instinct is to research it to make sure it’s true. How can people just immediately buy into whatever they hear without a hint of critical thinking?” Clearly you spent zero time following any scientific research on the subject of oils, yet you “immediately [bought] into whatever” you heard about oils. Now we’ll see how intellectually honest people here are since no one in their right mind would read the results of these scientific studies and continue to call essential oils “complete bunk.” These naysaying buzzwords about oils come from people who blindly believe memes and what they hear because it fits into their narcissistic self-perception as a nerdy skeptic. The more you pat each other’s backs and inflate your egos on these boards the more high you get off the endogenic drugs your bodies crank into your bloodstream. I can relate to this because when I first realized that there almost certainly is no god (IMO) I became very vocal about it. I was addicted to calling people out for their false beliefs. Eventually I realized I was doing it because knocking other people’s beliefs made me feel better about my own intelligence. I was younger then and changed for the better once I realized that pattern. The more you do that the more your beliefs are backed by emotion rather than logic.
Sure, in any market there will be wildly false claims. And many people who get into using essential oils do so without research and might be called gullible. But if we put the naysayers who clearly didn’t do their research into one group and the proponents of essential oils who didn’t do their research into another group, then at the end of the day it was those “gullible” “fools” whose beliefs actually were supported by science. Our society has long depended partly on testimonials and referrals from friends; and when a friend’s advice turns out to be something that actually worked for their particular woe then that’s their science. Science is an amazing tool, but should we criticize every successful feat accomplished before we began to use the scientific method? Of course not. Efficacy can be self-evident.
So drop your loaded conceptions of essential oils as some sort of “voodoo” “magic.” They are oils that contain actual chemical compounds that have measurable medicinal effects. Is this really that surprising? Can’t you contemplate how certain plants that happened to produce a compound that had antifungal properties would have had a better chance at survival in certain environments? And from there each successive generation would be naturally selected by the amount of antifungal chemicals it created until it hit a peak where the amount was no longer relevant or possibly caused some other complication. Wow, critical thinking in action.
Finally I’m going to share an important piece of often overlooked history that demonstrates the dangerousness of the egoic mentality on this board that boldly rejects science based alternative medicine. In the middle of the 19th century there was a Hungarian born physician named Ignaz Semmelweis who made a revolutionary discovery. At the time, the mortality rate was quite high for women giving birth, specifically where he was practicing medicine in what’s now Austria. He and his colleagues were performing autopsies and then working with women giving birth without washing their hands. This was before germ theory was proven. Semmelweis made the connection between microscopic organisms and the diseases killing people and came up with a solution for washing hands consisting of water and a small amount of bleach. This led to the mortality rate dropping by 90%, saving thousands of lives at one clinic alone (let alone the millions of lives saved due to the discovery). Unfortunately the medical community was so arrogant that they were offended at what was to them a preposterous idea that they should have to do something different by washing their hands. The medical community disregarded the results Semmelweis was having and slandered his name. The poor guy had to watch his name be tarnished while thousands of innocent people died due to pure ignorance. He wrote several letters attempting to help change this medical practice to no avail. He was eventually brought to a mental hospital under false pretense where he was beaten to death by the guards, dying of internal bleeding. Stop the madness people, your beliefs are unscientific–stop the charade. .
Another face palm
You joined 8 mins ago, yet managed to construct that entire shitpost that quickly? Right. Reported.
On the one hand, I love that this person has a carefully crafted long post with an actual point, complete sentences, and is only slightly insulting. Let’s face it, we’re not exactly undeserving of some scorn from the folks that believe in this claptrap. We certainly haven’t been shy about throwing around the “hoax” and “bullshit” accusations.
On the other hand, @My_Username? Really? You couldn’t even come up with a good alias? At least @theticktockhouse was mildly clever.
I wait with baited breath, guy who joined the forum specifically to extol the virtues of magic beans!
No , dude, no one questions that plants have chemical compounds, many of which can have beneficial effects. That’s where shit like aspirin comes from.
But the thing is, we know scientifically that aspirin works, because we’ve actually done scientific studies proving it. We know the chemical mechanisms by which it works. We know what concentrations will have an effect, etc.
And that’s an important part of the efficacy of a drug… the dosage. Essential oils, in arbitrary concentrations, aren’t guaranteed to do anything. You need to actually do SCIENCE if you want to establish that kind of utility.
That is not a thing. The very term alternative medicine precludes the notion that it is “science based”, because the alternative part means, alternative to the scientific norms. If it is science-based, it is not alternative.
This is how every medical conspiracy theory seems to work. The utterly moronic ye olde tyme medical community made a mistake 150+ years ago, CAN’T BE TRUSTED NOW! That is all the proof that I need.
This is an amazingly, ridiculous, false equivalency. You, sir/madame/whatever are are intellectually dishonest, you know it, and are trying to hide it behind, “I hope I look smart by typing lot o words”. Congrats on your writing degree, but you flunked science.
Second, you have totally neglected to focus on what the majority of this thread is about: anti-vaxxers and diluting compounds to such a level the body could never utilize them. No - water does not have “memory” and compounds do not get more powerful the more you dilute them.
Last - there are plenty of “organic oils” that have plenty of medical uses. This is exactly why doctors and scientists have been pushing FOR YEARS to get marijuana re-classified. It’s also why there are a ton of people in remote parts of the world taking samples of plants, trees, fungi, etc.
Extra last - this isn’t about “beliefs”. There is no difference between medicine, chemistry, and witchcraft when it comes to deciding what works to treat human diseases. What there is a difference in is an industry that is terribly scared to have itself regulated like real medicine because that would cut into your profit margin and more importantly show you have no use in the modern world. But in today’s economy, morality and ethics have no value (see Republicans). So you will trick and bully your way into making yourself feel needed, and will do it at the expense of people’s lives.
Last extra last - when you posted that link I expected it was going to be an Excel database with about 1,000 peer reviewed articles in real science magazines like Nature, Science, JAMA, each one for a different essential oil. Instead what we got was a tiny document with a large font and a couple of things linked which is supposed to validate your entire “industry”. I’d really like to see people like yourself held liable for killing individuals when you convince/coerce them into using essential oils for cancer instead of real medicine.
And, further, here’s the thing for me. I literally care not one whit if someone decides to use essential oils, herbal remedies, or whothefuckcares what else, as long as it is a supplement to medical treatment, not in lieu of. Other than the 15C homeopathic dillution bullshit (i.e. literally tap water), I’ve got absolutely no issue with that.
And for minor things like headaches, routine colds, and other trivial diseases? Even taking them instead of traditional medicine is fine with me. Because whether it does, or does not, work has zero bearing on anything other than how quickly you recover. Hell for common bacterials I’m even in favor of that, because that’s essentially what I do. I don’t take asprin, or medicine, for the small stuff. I’ll jokingly say that I’m doing my part to help slowdown the emergence of antibacterial resistant strains of bacteria. In reality I’m just lazy and would rather drink a cup of mint tea with honey than go to the Walgreens and get medication for a sore throat.
But for actual serious medical conditions, diseases, and such? Nah. Like the mother who damn near killed her kids because she gave them some homeopathic, or holistic medicine when they had measles or something? Fuck that lady. Those people are a menace to society.
Thank you @CraigM. I’d like to further expound on the anti-vaxxers and other holistic parasites who put the rest of the population at risk because they claim to have a cure/treatment for Ebola, AIDS, and a ton of other diseases. Once again, you will continue to be selfish until you’re actually held accountable (like real doctors). But I’m going to bet you’d never, ever hold yourself to the same ethical standards of modern medicine because… well, I’m sure you’re trying to hold that smile back because you know - we know - it would never cut it. You want to play doctor but are too lazy or unintelligent to compete with the best minds in the country to get those few spots in medical school, spending a combined 8-10 years of your life getting a medical degree to practice medicine.
BTW - modern medicine, my doctors etc don’t care where medicine comes from. Whether an essential oil or free air of the ocean one inhales while surfing. What’s that? You say modern medicine suppresses medicine that won’t make them filthy rich? Wrong! The Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, the National Institutes of Health, the, Australian CF Foundation, and pharmaceutical firms sponsored double blind studies to see why surfers in Australia with Cystic Fibrosis had better pulmonary results than anyone else. Turns out, inhaled saline, the free stuff you breathe in while surfing, helps break down mucous. So now a pharma company makes sterile saline for us to inhale as one of our breathing treatments and no one is getting rich off of it, but we have clinical proof it significantly helps.
So please @My_username respond to my posts point for point. I want to have an honest scientific debate with you. Also, I’m wondering if you’d like to talk to a widower who’s wife used essential oils instead of chemo for breast cancer and died. They were going to go with lumpectomy and chemo, but were then convinced by a “naturopath” from their church to go with essential oils slathered on the breast instead. It ate away her skin so she thought for sure it was sucking the cancer out, but of course, it did nothing. None of you are held accountable unless you actively poison someone aka murder. Heck, even when you torture your kids (as seen above) you’re not held responsible. It’s pretty sick when you think about it isn’t it? Play doctor without a degree. Cost people’s lives with many remedies that do nothing.
Your post reminded me of Mark Twain’s letter to a patent medicine salesman. Twain’s daughter had died from meningitis and Twain’s son had died of diptheria. The patent medicine claimed to cure both ailments.
[quote]
Dear Sir,
Your letter is an insoluble puzzle to me. The handwriting is good and exhibits considerable character, and there are even traces of intelligence in what you say, yet the letter and the accompanying advertisements profess to be the work of the same hand. The person who wrote the advertisements is without doubt the most ignorant person now alive on the planet; also without doubt he is an idiot, an idiot of the 33rd degree, and scion of an ancestral procession of idiots stretching back to the Missing Link. It puzzles me to make out how the same hand could have constructed your letter and your advertisements. Puzzles fret me, puzzles annoy me, puzzles exasperate me; and always, for a moment, they arouse in me an unkind state of mind toward the person who has puzzled me. A few moments from now my resentment will have faded and passed and I shall probably even be praying for you; but while there is yet time I hasten to wish that you may take a dose of your own poison by mistake, and enter swiftly into the damnation which you and all other patent medicine assassins have so remorselessly earned and do so richly deserve.
Adieu, adieu, adieu![/quote]
Actually, I disagree with that somewhat. I think there’s a certain amount of cultural relativism that plays into what is considered “alternative”. For instance, I’m pretty sure that the vast majority of the Western medical community (and most people in the US) look at something like acupuncture as “alternative” but it wouldn’t be viewed that way in many other places. Hell, I used to think the same thing.
Except acupuncture is not science based and the vast majority of trials have shown it has no real effect.
Yes, I read the comments here, was eager to share and wrote my post first in a google doc before I made an account. Is that a problem? You reported me because…? I genuinely shared my qualms with some specific and some general sentiment being expressed here. Granted, I was a bit snarky with some of it, but it was no worse than the standard I was already seeing here so I figured it was fair game.
RichVR lol I actually anticipated this meme to pop up at least once. Unfortunately though, it’s just an unoriginal meme that adds nothing to the conversation but a cheap laugh. Anything to say that actually addresses…something…?
Thank you for the acknowledgement and for noticing that I was “only slightly insulting.” I was actually worried that I had come off more harsh than the typical sharp post here. Too often I see a polite but contrary point taken as being rude and I’m glad this might not be the case for some of you. But sadly you use a buzzword like “claptrap” to describe essential oils. So basically you’re calling them irrational, wildly unreasonable, illogical, even inappropriate, yet you have no scientific evidence to back that up. Simultaneously you completely ignore the fact that the scientific research I linked proves that using them–or at least entertaining their use–is completely reasonable, logical, rational, and appropriate. Thus your post is the irrational, wildly unreasonable, illogical, and perhaps inappropriate one. Good work, I would like to subscribe to your newsletter, sir.
Yes, my handle is bland. I was feeling impatient and didn’t allow myself to think about it for longer than a few seconds. I mean, if we’re going to knock me for my boring username then I’m going to point out the sheer lack of depth in your retort. Your post implies you read what I shared and going no deeper than knocking my name makes me wonder if that is representative of the depth of your skills in this area.
@Timex My bait was intentional. In all honesty I added some snark to my post because I knew it was long and figured that a sharp challenge would keep people reading. It appeared to work. I do apologize if I offended anyone though. I don’t have any actual animosity toward any of you. But the intellectual dishonesty and misinformation does annoy me. “joined the forum specifically to extol the virtues of magic beans?” Come on, don’t you have any more to share than a false interpretation of my intent (blatant logical fallacy)? Intentions are convoluted and normally multifaceted but I believe I mostly wanted to be a voice for the people being ridiculed by hollow rhetoric and a counterargument for the random people who come across this who otherwise would have been taken in by your type of erroneous arguments.
I am not a salesperson for essential oils and have nothing to gain here except hopefully to provide maybe the first argument on this thread evidenced by actual science rather than meaningless cheap shots.
Ummm did you not read the “scientific studies” showing that the oils worked for the functions I outlined? Yes, I know they were abstracts but they nevertheless listed results and conclusions. As for doses, obviously dosage matters. That’s why “science,” as you put it, has been done in these studies to determine rates of success at various doses. Some studies experiment with a wider range of doses and some don’t. And there’s plenty of varying dosages tested within studies I didn’t list. Yes, dosage is important in the efficacy of a drug, but the dosages in the studies I compiled were shown to be effective. So unless a significant portion of people are having awful reactions to the doses used then “establishing that kind utility” was shown by the aforementioned studies. By the way, when was any medicine “guaranteed to do anything”? I figure by “anything” you mean be at least somewhat effective. It’s results above placebo that count in medical studies and these studies showed results. Case closed.
Oh @jpinard, where do I start? I won’t respond to your posts “point for point” because you go on about things that have nothing to do with me or my post like “holistic parasites who…claim to have a cure/treatment for Ebola.” You created a straw man argument that you proceeded to argue incompetently and unconvincingly. You bring up some outlandish case of a woman having breast cancer that once again has no fair reference to the various ailments that I linked to which are shown to be effectively treated by essential oils. “Cost people’s lives with many remedies that do nothing”? Are you serious…? Far from “doing nothing,” each one of them worked.
-“congrats on your writing degree, but you flunked science.” Okay, I aced science and I don’t have a degree in writing–good one.
-The Semmelweis analogy wasn’t meant to be an equivalency, just a general comparison. I’m “intellectually dishonest” and I “know it”? No, I simply shared remedies that have worked for me and my friends and backed them up with science–and not without a bit of well-deserved, contemptuous shunning.
-No I didn’t neglect “what the majority of this thread” is about. Let’s see, this thread is called "Essential Oils And Other Holistic Bullshit, the contents of which are mostly the bashing of homeopathy, essential oils, and their proponents and salespeople. I focused on oils rather than homeopathy because it’s what I know. A lot of what’s in this thread isn’t even worth acknowledging and is totally off base.
-I’m not sure why you mention a couple arbitrary examples of scientists “taking samples” and “trying to get marijuana re-classified:” No one is arguing this and we all know that a lot of chemicals are synthesized from plants. I’m however talking about essential oils as a viable form of medicine for certain uses. Try to stay on topic.
-Your “extra last” isn’t even worth replying to (I guess many of these weren’t either, but whatever).
-Really? You thought I would spend days and days reading 1000 articles? Nah, you’d still be set in your unsubstantiated beliefs. By the way an actual study is more of a scholarly source than an article since the studies use scientific rather than persuasive language to describe results of the experiment. Haha, “large font”? Well, 12 pt is the standard for a doc. Is that really all you have in response? Did you even look at the results in those studies? Because if you can’t at least say, “hmm, those results are interesting. I wonder if there’s even more research, and if not then there should be because those results demonstrate something” then your opinions aren’t malleable and you shouldn’t be taken seriously.
-And for shame @jpinard, for shame. My posting of some studies and testimonials are being equated with potentially killing someone? And apparently for this post I should be “held liable” (presumably put in jail) for someone using my post as medical advice for cancer treatment? At no point did I say oils cure cancer. I referenced a study that demonstrated Frankincense oil arresting the development of cancer cells in the bladder while keeping normal cells intact. If someone used that as reason to treat their cancer with Frankincense alone then they’d be as much of an ignoramus as you face palm
You want an “honest scientific debate” yet you can’t bring honesty or science anywhere into your rebuttal?
Telefrog, Your Twain quotation provides nothing of substance so I’ll leave it alone.
Come on people, don’t you have anything of substance to say? Well, I did assume this would be the reaction. None of you seem to want to alter your beliefs when faced with evidence. Sigh.
Welcome to QT3.
With the, um, rather bland username, join date and first post date, your first post had all the hallmarks of a drive-by bot, which would explain the report, fyi.
Well, other than reiterating that Mark Twain was the absolute master at insulting someone. I mean, damn! When was the last time anyone cut at you with something as evocative and devastating as “idiot of the 33rd degree, and scion of an ancestral procession of idiots stretching back to the Missing Link?” That’s some godly shade.