Well, I like it (SOB)
Me too. We suck, you and I! Liking a game that has disappointed on so many levels (“mechanics, characterization, exposition, graphics, and puzzle design”). We are total pieces of shit for enjoying this even for one minute.
Doug> Admittedly, I didn’t play the game at the turn of midnight in Red Rose Manor with the lights off while sitting on the coffin of my dead grandmother or whatever “ambience” some feel is necessary to “properly appreciate” the game. A good game shouldn’t need artificial measures to compensate for its weakness in mechanics and design.
I’m never going to agree with you on anything, apparently. Ambience has always been critical for horror games, going way back to playing Call of Cthulu with pen and paper. And I refuse to believe that horror novels have the same impact on the beach as your easy chair late at night.
Reflex games like Super Monkeyball or Halo could work their magic anywhere, but not something that works on your mood. Everybody’s wondering why ED felt flat at E3, and I think this must be part of the reason.
PS: Playing on a coffin in a manor! Oooooh, that would add another half point to ED’s rating!
2nd PS: Alright Mr. Chick, my apology is retracted. And… uh… insult doubled! Go back to whatever shooter or RTS game you’re playing that’s exactly like every other shooter or RTS game since the dawn of time, see if I care. * huffy tone *
Silent Hill 2 and System Shock 2, both better at psychological horror and ambience (yes, I’m aware that SH2 sucked in the gameplay department).
System Shock 2 is freaking scary. There were points where I was in a tough situation and freaked out by odd noises n such where I had to just quit the game for a while.
Except for Shenmue - that game still completely and utterly sucks.
I liked the fork lift racing.
And yes, I still like Eternal Darkness, even two chapters past Badass Monk That Kinda Reminds Me Of Badass Priest From Dead Alive. It’s not due to the game instilling THE FEAR in me (only System Shock 2 and Alone In The Dark 1 did that), but I just really like the spellcasting and the sanity effects. Oh well. And the fact that like in many Lovecraft stories, characters tend to be doomed from the get-go.
What can I say, I’m a NWN fanboy and an ED fanboy.
Hand in hand with games being reviewed too enthusiastically early is the immediate excessive niggling to counter those opinions. Not that the niggling is inherently wrong especially given that the early reviews are (a game like External Darkness has a lot of flaws that aren’t mentioned in the reviews).
For me, Doug’s mini-review has many true points that are just overstated. Especially given how little he goes into what “the strong points” of the game are besides a basic list. Now there’s no requirement stating that he has to go indepth on what he likes in the game, I just want to be one of those countering the counter people who inevitably must also pop up.
Combat: A good portion of the game isn’t spent fighting. There’s even chapter breaks with no fighting at all. I’d call the actual combat workman-like. Since the most of the fighting occurs in relatively similar areas, I feel the sameness of scale makes the fighting get a bit stale. Fortunately, the game shifts the combat from pure hack 'n slash to a bit of hack 'n slash and magic. Anyone wanting an action game would be better served not picking up ED. Also, the magic system makes for an unbalanced character about 3/4 of the way into the game. It never became a chore for me, but I didn’t have anything to really worry about except for a handful of situations (the final battle was not one of these, it was too easy and took no thought).
Puzzles: While few of them are truly satisfying, I’d put them under the workman-like category. Nothing really stumped me for being too illogical (a good thing), but nothing really stumped me in “that good way” either. I wouldn’t call the puzzles stupid, but I wouldn’t give them high marks. They’re just one of the sum of relatively average gameplay parts that add up to something good.
Plot/Exploration/Characters: Here’s where I disagree most with Doug. I’d say this is where the game makes up for all the other basically average elements. The story begins with a woman who is called back to her grandfathers home after his mysterious death. She finds a book that details an ancient power struggle that is still going on. It’s a neat device that means that we don’t really need to know too much about her. This also goes for the other characters who exist in the game only to reveal the greater story. As far as the story is concerned, I believe the characters are well developed (for a videogame, but that disclaimer goes for most every game I’ve encountered). We learn a lot more about some of the characters than Doug lets on - Alex’s parents were mysteriously killed (I’m glad they stuck to leaving her appearance “normal,” the type of thing that I think of when developers try to make the character’s appearance “say” something about the character leads to afros, shades and other cliched looks that say as much as Alex’s except they call more attention to themselves). Maximilian is definitely better defined than a man in a wig, he’s the one we see most affected by the bluring of reality that insanity brings. Karim hasn’t lost his love, he’s told by an unrequited love that she will be his if he fetches her an object. Sure, none of this is Shakespeare, but most of the characters are given either an interesting motivation or find themselves in the wrong place in a relatively novel way. As the story is set up, we know the villain’s motivation as our player controlled characters are caught up in the villain’s initial fateful move. I definitely saw myself participating in the picaresque multiple-protagonist story as it lead me to reveal what must be done to bring an end to the villain.
I thought that experiencing the different environments over time was a neat set-up. I wish this was further explored by having the events of the times intrude on the places more than having a single character from a period intruding on the places. Here’s where the game seems like a great rough draft of what could’ve been a stellar title. The only thing the time periods change is the character, weapons and look of the environments. For example, in one level a battle rages on outside, but it doesn’t come in and effect the gameplay. Having outside real-world forces intrude every now and then would’ve added a greater opportunity for various gameplay elements and made the sense of place even stronger.
Technology: The graphics/environments are nicely realized. The animations and models lack inspiration. The sound has that inspiration.
I basically think the game is a solid B. It does everything well enough, tells an interesting story and adds a few novel elements. I can imagine a great game being made out of it, but we’ve got what we’ve got. The sum of the parts is strong enough for me to easily reccomend a rental for anyone and a buy if you think it would be up your alley. I’ve already played through it twice, so for me, there’s definitely something there. I’d admit there’s not much replay value (mostly cosmetic changes and an expanded ending for beating it thrice). I see the need to beat it three times for the “best” ending as nothing too harmful. From what I’ve heard, it only explains better where they’d go in a sequel, so it’s a treat for those that love the story. Videogames have a history of similar unlockable things (levels and better endings being those that miss out on them most hate to miss out on), so this is just more of that trend.
Just another opinion, but it’s mine so I obviously feel it gives the game a bit more of a fair shake.
OK, I can agree with System Shock 2. That is a diamond in the rough of horror gaming that doesn’t get the appreication it deserves. Best use of sound I have ever seen in a game. Also has solid gameplay, nice roleplaying elements, and a depth of story.
Never played Silent Hill 2 (too many people screaming “it sucks”) so I can’t really rate it.
I could only play SS2 for short periods of time when it first came out because it was so creepy and I was so wound up waiting for something to come out of the darkness. I only got through it completely playing coop much later on. It was still creepy but not nearly as bad coop.
– Xaroc
Silent Hill 2 was full of atmosphere, if by “atmosphere” you mean "lots of fog that makes it difficult to see anything more than three feet away and dialog that sounds like it might have been written by Dieter from Saturday Night Live (“love me… love my… Caribou”).
System Shock 2 was, however, a genuinely creepy game.
I could only play SS2 for short periods of time when it first came out because it was so creepy and I was so wound up waiting for something to come out of the darkness.
For God’s sake man, get a grip. And that goes double for the rest of you.
I’ve played all these supposedly “scary” games and I can’t recall any real fear while playing. If you guys are bigger wusses than me… I weep for the future of mankind.
Thief scared me. Sneaking through the darkness trying not to be found when all of a sudden someone screams at me and whacks me in the head with a sword… I never did get over that.
Nothing like a gamer flaunting supposed ‘bravery’ on an internet message board. Kudos to you, sir.
That is the only game to really do that to me so chalk it up to great design/presentation and me being really “into” the game. You seem to just churn through games like crazy never slowing down to appreciate the finer points of setting, storyline, etc… Sure you know every weapon and if it is modeled correctly and other techy kind of things (which I appricate as well) but never get involved with a game like a lot of people here do.
– Xaroc
I once wet my pants playing Doom. And I slept with all the lights on after particularly intense Pikmin session.
The best scary moment in a game was one I witnessed. Remember the Aliens mod for Doom?
I had my friend come over to play it. I turned out all the lights and turned up the sound and didn’t tell him anything about it and let him experience it all for himself. If you recall, there’s no encounter in the first level, but it oozed atmosphere with very well placed soundbytes. So after getting initially creepted out, he got a bit too comfortable and started running throughout the second level without caution or regard and bolted straight through this door that contained a bunch of eggs and had all those secreted alien textured tiles and a bunch of hisses and shrieks errupted from the speakers. He immediately hit the “S” key to move backwards, but because the Colonial Marine he was playing was such an extension of himself – something all good first person shooters strive for, how many times have you “ducked” while playing? :wink: – he physically started backing up his real body as well, his feet scrambling with fury…right out of the chair. He completely tipped the chair backwards and he landed on his back hard. Had to be one of the funniest things I’ve ever seen because you could just see the moment building. I nearly wet my pants too, but out of laughter, not fear. :P
Wumpus probably rides roller coasters with a steely frown.
Aliens MOD for Doom was so great.
Wumpus probably rides roller coasters with a steely frown.
Damn, Mr. forger, that’s a great line.
-Tom
C’mon guys. Games are fun. They are entertainment. Maybe your definition of scare is different than mine, because when something creepy happened in System Shock 2, that made it even more FUN.
Things I find “scary”:
- almost being in a car accident
- finding out your girlfriend missed her period (I will explain this one to Met_K later)
- being laid off from your job
- finding out you miscalculated your taxes and owe $5,000 to the IRS
- a picture of Greg Kasavin
Games, however: not scary.