How do you revert patches on Steam, btw? I was thinking of firing up EU4 this weekend for a bit.

Right click on EUIV in your games list, go to properties. Select the Betas tab, select version of choice.

Thanks!

Besides reverting would you also recommend uninstalling the Common Sense DLC or will the version revert take care of the obvious issues?

-Todd

Personally I really like it, I don’t think I could go back and play without the fort changes (and I like the province development stuff quite a bit too).

Reverting will take care of it. You won’t benefit from (or be annoyed by) any of Common Sense’s features when you revert. I reverted to 1.6.2 a while back to finish off a France world conquest run, for example.

Uninstalling/disabling Common Sense won’t change anything, all of the underlying changes to the system will still be there but you will be blocked from doing certain things (such as developing provinces). So either revert the patch or play with common sense. I think the fort changes are great, province development is great, but as Dave mentioned the significant increase in coring/diploannexing change the pace of the game and not for the better, in my view. I am waiting to play until a hotfix lowers the coring costs (fingers crossed).

I’ll give one example of the slower pace. I’m currently playing England and forced France into a personal union via the mission. Knowing that integrating them would be expensive, I took the Influence idea group. Still, when the to time integrate finally rolled around, the total cost was over 3000 monarch points, and it tied up one of my two diplomats for about 45 years. And that was with a diplomatic reputation adviser and a policy selection to speed the process up, too.

Having only one free diplomat for almost half a century severely limited all my other options. I spent a lot of time watching the clock spin. Bleah. The fact that special buildings like the Embassy (which gave another diplomat) are gone really hurts, as does the increase to costs and times.

Since I’m still in 1.9… what?! How would you possibly increase your number of diplomats, or generals, without an equivalent building? Those are kind of a big deal.

They are, and they’re gone. It’s one of the biggest complaints about 1.12, and a deserved one.

I still think you can expand rapidly enough. I started as a custom Papal State (same ~3 provinces, I just tweaked a couple ideas because I wanted to play around with Development and the new Protestant mechanics). By the 1700s I owned the entirety of northern Africa from the Atlantic to Egypt, all of the Balkans, most of Austria, Hungary, and digging into Polish territory now. I also have the entire Iberian peninsula, France in a PU, and the next war will probably be the end of the Ottomans.

If all that can be accomplished by a nation starting with 3-4 provinces, I think the expansion rate is good enough for me - especially since I’ve been messing around with the Development system and haven’t been pushing expansion as hard as I could have. I was more just messing around with the new systems as opposed to trying to optimize play.

Map

Only one of my regular EU4 friends have bought the expansion. I tried the free version last night with some friends and it seemed like a train wreck. Conquering at game start was a breeze and a lot of stuff seemed fucked up. The AI seemed much worse than previously and didn’t even try to defend itself. My king died putting me under a PU as Austria almost immediately while still living to be my general. Dumb. I also noticed France/England don’t start at war anymore? WTF. France only had about ~20k men and promptly died within months to Burgundy. Hungary had more muscle than France. I need to play more but it seems like at this point they are just changing random crap to be different enough to justify more DLC.

So if I understand this correctly you can’t increase development level without the DLC? Ugh. That is shitty.

I’ve got the expansion and I don’t read the EU forums much, so I was unaware it was a trainwreck. It does seem like there are a ton of needs for your monarch points now, though, since you now need monarch points to develop your provinces in addition to ideas and your main tech advances.

I’m playing as Muscovy/Russia now and I will admit it took a ton of time to integrate Kazan (though I had fed it a bunch of provinces from Nogai, so maybe that’s to be expected?). It felt like a long time, but it was a big country, so the integration didn’t feel abnormally long. And maybe it’s just Russia, but my only issues with expanding are that eventually all the countries that border me ally each other (Sweden, Poland, Lithuania) so pushing to the west is somewhat problematic. But I’m waiting… and watching.

If I remember right, the reasoning behind the England-France peace was that they had some kind of temporary truce at the time historically.
And you actually don’t need to develop your provinces, as you couldn’t do it before either. The biggest incentive for that is actually the lack of building slots on undeveloped provinces.

So I discovered something new last time I played, apparently there is a hard cap on annexing a vassal. That cap being 50 base tax.

This is very much not good.

So my long term plans had involved several things that are derailed by this. First and foremost I had been planning Sultan of Rum, and have been in position to do so for a very long time. In fact for the last 100 years I’ve had Moscow under direct control, and my Urbino vassal had held Rome. I delayed annexing them for the sole reason that I was going to Unify Islam first, so I could possibly convert Rome.

But I fed the northern half of the peninsula to Urbino, so they sit at around 65 basetax. No annex.

Persia is huge, from Basra to Samarkand. Hahaha, nope. 150 basetax.

My newly vassalised Tunis (because the Tunisian idea makes coring very expensive), also too big.

Genoa and Ferarra are under the limit, but due to being electors they are unannexable for now, as I want to destroy the empire.

Crimea I had been using to feed Lithuanian and Golden Horde land. 51 basetax (oh FFS).

This sucks. It’s partly my own fault, but still I am less than thrilled. Unfortunately I can’t seem to find much information about how to deal with this, as the hard limit seems semi undocumented. Normal things like enacting the policy to reduce annexing cost 20%, increasing diplomatic rep, none of that makes a difference.

I get making it harder, I really do. That’s not the issue, it is that harder = impossible at the arbitrary limit, and trivial below it. Now I’m just grumpy because I’ll likely face a series of wars against my former vassals. Release Crimea, declare war, take 2-3 provinces, force vassalization again, annex in 10 years. Ditto Urbino (not Persia, at 150 basetax that’s not happening. I can live with them unannexable though.). It’s just kind of annoying that I’m going to be forced to do something like that.

So if anyone has any ideas, I’m all ears.

Really?! I haven’t ever run into this before. I believe you, I just find it incredible that I’ve played as many hours as I have but did not try to annex a vassal over 50 base tax before. I know you can’t offer vassalage to anyone over 50BT, but didn’t know it prevented annexation.

The Wiki doesn’t make any mention of a base tax cap:

After 10 years and if the vassal has +190 relations with the suzerain and less then 50% liberty desire, the suzerain can take the diplomatic action Annex Vassal to start the process of incorporating the vassal’s provinces into the suzerain country.

So either the Wiki is wrong, something has changed in one of the versions, or it’s always been so and I’ve just never tried to annex someone over 50BT. If the latter is the case… crazy!

If you’re optimizing, it’s better to expand/core than it is to develop, it’s significantly more efficient on monarch points. I really like the development stuff for flavor purposes, though, and there are occasions where you have a surplus of one monarch point and development can offer a nice outlet. In terms of your ability to play the game effectively, though, you’re not missing out on anything.

Hmm. I haven’t run into this. In my current England game, I annexed a large Leon to which I fed most of Castile’s lands without issues. I didn’t check the base tax, but I would be surprised if it was under 50. Can you provide a screenshot of the mouseover tooltip you get that says 50 is the issue?

I will when I get home.

I thought it was odd too. I even changed policies and hired the statesman to help (dip rep +5, yay!). I’m wondering if it might be a bug. Searching around the forums and wikis has shed no light.