2141

I’m getting to the conclusion that Paradox games should be held off on until they’re finished 3 or 4 years later. Not because of bugginess, but because of what is mentioned above- and the constant DLC stream that goes on forever.

2142

I could see that. I think it’s a matter of personality/tastes. For me, a big part of the enjoyment and longevity of the game is playing along with it while it evolves and as all the additions come through. It needs to be a complete game at release, though (which EU4 felt like for me), otherwise… yeah, if the game’s not good at launch, I’d much rather hold off!

2143

I do find that learning a Paradox game as it progresses with DLC makes life much easier to learn the systems and how they interact. Also, given the DLC method with Paradox games, it could well be a long time before they are considered finished - see Crusader Kings 2 for instance which is still going strong 3.5 years later.

2144

I originally strongly supported the EU4 DLC model but they had some expansions that flunked. Conquest of Paradise main feature was a failure (random world generation) and Common Sense crossed the line on what I view as reasonable. If they had added completely new content in order for nations to go tall I’d be fine with that. Yet rejiggering the whole game so I can’t go anywhere near as tall as I used to be able? Then I have to re-buy to unlock what I could already do? Fuck that.

I remember an Angry Joe interview where Paradox talked themselves up as being better and different. Apparently major successes have changed them. It honestly pains me because Paradox used to be one of my favorite developers but everyone changes. id for a long time was my favorite developer but after Quake 3 they never recovered.

While EU4 was a good game at launch it definitely had some obvious holes in it that DLC filled later. It is hard for me to want to buy Stellaris because I know 5-10+ major expansions are coming and Paradox has no incentive to get it right at release. Sure it will be a good game probably but their business model encourages them to not get everything right or finished so it can be changed/fixed/added later via DLC. Things just need to be good enough so they can build on it. I don’t see how their DLC heavy model is any different than early access at this point. It makes more sense to wait until early access games are done and in Paradox case it makes more sense to wait until they stop releasing DLC then buy everything 90% off.

2145

That is the same conclusion I have arrived at regarding Paradox games.

2146

I arrived at the conclusion that Paradox games are well made and the DLC expansion packs almost always add fun, new aspects to the game and thus are worth my money.

2147

Alternatively you can simply wait six months and buy the DLC at steeply discounted rates. Until I pick up the DLC, I just run a previous version. You still get the fun, new aspects, but at a lower price. No complaints that Common Sense went on sale so soon after release though. :)

2148

Sure, but Granath had 6 months of enjoying the new content while you were waiting on the sideline to save a few bucks. :) I play EU4 a lot, so waiting several months to save the cost of lunch isn’t worth it to me!

2149

hehe fair enough :) This last year has been a bit of an experiment for me where I only allocated $150 to video game purchases for the entire calendar year. This has sent me scrambling for sale prices like never before!

It remains to be seen whether I repeat the experiment next year. While it’s been refreshing to have to focus my attention fairly sharply on games, I’m not sure that focus has been entirely enjoyable. My wife would certainly appreciate a reprieve from silly savings goals. :)

2150

Unless it’s a game that I really enjoy playing, there are plenty of other games in my gaming backlog that will scratch my gaming itch enough to fill the gap between the time a Paradox title is released and the time it and all its DLC can be purchased for huge discounts in price.

2151

I think there is some overemphasis on the waiting and price component.

I was able to purchase the last three major EUIV expansions on release date for about $8 USD.

If that is too much, wait between 1.5 to 3 months for the expansions to drop very significantly. Both Common Sense and Horse Lords were available for $3.74 USD at several major distributors this past weekend.

-Todd

2152

While I was happy to get CS at that price, it appeared to be a pretty wide-spread pricing error. When I went back an hour later to get a second copy for a friend, the discounts at the stores I checked were all back at the ~33% level stead of the rather insane 75%.

Also, I’m interested in how you purchased CS for $8. The cheapest I found at release time was GMG at around $11.50

2153

In most cases I purchased the expansions from Nuuvem.

-Todd

2154

Right now, the base game of Europa Universalis IV is selling on Steam for $39.99 U.S. The total for all of its 35 DLC is $166.16, making a grand total of $206.15 U.S. Personally I feel that $200+ for a PC game is just too damned much.

2155

It’s only $9.99 U.S. on Humble though.

2156

That’s my point. Why pay the full price of $200+ for the base game and its DLC when you can pick it up for 75% off later?

2157

Precisely. Then there’s a value judgement that comes in at the 75% level. Is 75% good enough (it is for me) when in another 12 months, it’ll likely be available for 80% off.

I’m not aiming to pay the absolute lowest I can for a game. I’m just aiming to maximize my personal price/enjoyment curve.

2158

Meh, I understand the sentiment, but also disagree. How much money do people play for MMO’s over their lifetime? The different DLC and changes, on top of an already good game, have been good for the most part. Much of those DLC are easily skipped too (such as all the unit packs). I’ve got almost all of it, and probably for a total of about $130. But it is also the only game ever to cross the 300 hour mark with me. So while, eventually, I have put more money into this game than others, it is not out of line with the value and enjoyment I’ve gotten.

2159

I have only paid a tiny fraction of that for for EUIV and all the DLC.

Sure if someone wanted to get in now and didn’t know the basics of looking for a deal they will have to cough up the +$200.

-Todd

2160

I’ve paid full price for the base game and the content DLC (I’m not counting all the various unit packs and other cosmetics, which I typically don’t buy). That’s around $40 for the base game and let’s say $90 for the expansions (it was less than that since Res Publica was only $5 if I remember correctly, but good enough). So that’s $130 total for an excellent game at release which has received constant development over the last two years. YMMV as always, but my dollar to value ratio for this game even paying full price has been excellent.

Let’s compare it to Civ5. I paid $60 for the base game and $30-$40 a piece for two expansions, which… hey look, puts it just about at the same price point! Of course, there were all the $5 nation DLCs in between as well. But for some reason I don’t recall anyone talking about how Civ5’s asking price was out of the realm of reason. That’s not a complaint, it’s just something I’ve been curious about, because I feel like I’ve got way more for money in CK2 and EU4 than I ever did with Civilization 5.