Europa Universalis 4

I did play the tutorial and watch a few videos as well. As for the truce thing, the truce icon on the “surface level” does NOT show when it will expire. You have to drill down one level to actually get the tool-tip on when it will expire.

Anyway, after a few restarts I am doing better with the Castle faction. However it seems rebels are super powered. I mean way stronger than nations. So I am in some war and I take out some country and as for the victory, I take a province.

I have two problems with this province right away:

  1. My missionaries can’t convert the religion. I have had this problem elsewhere. Basically the negative bonuses are way to high to make any progress. I was looking at the tech tree and I only saw one thing in one place that improved missionary conversion power. I noticed the biggest factor was a penalty for taxes, like -2.5% because of tax rate. Is there a way to remove the tax burden from a particular province? Perhaps this is hidden in some menu. If not, it seems like religious conversion isn’t something that can be commonly done.

  2. The other problem is the culture. I can’t convert it because of nationalism. Is there a way to remove that property? I have two provinces with this restriction. I also did not see this property (probably displayed somewhere) before I chose to take the province.

Then later the rebels: A stack of 9 spawns. My army of 24 moves over and gets butchered. The stack gets down to size 6. This is a fully recovered army that beat an entire other nation. I rebuild the army to 30. I move it back to the rebel stack and it again dies and this time the rebel stack goes to size 4. I give up on them and lose a bunch of prestige negotiating with them.

I was just giving you guff. The Paradox games are actually pretty well suited to just jumping in without knowing how to play. Let time run and stuff happens. You can figure it out later.

FWIW, they tend to come with pretty good manuals, too. I don’t know if you’re into reading manuals, but along with the tooltips, these games are pretty well documented.

-Tom

I keep forgetting about manuals. Once I went to digital downloads only, I forgot about them. I suppose when I get home I can find the steam link to the manual.

  1. My missionaries can’t convert the religion. I have had this problem elsewhere. Basically the negative bonuses are way to high to make any progress. I was looking at the tech tree and I only saw one thing in one place that improved missionary conversion power. I noticed the biggest factor was a penalty for taxes, like -2.5% because of tax rate. Is there a way to remove the tax burden from a particular province? Perhaps this is hidden in some menu. If not, it seems like religious conversion isn’t something that can be commonly done.

There are religious ideas that help with conversion, as does stability and having the right advisors. From the Wiki:

Global missionary strength.pngMissionary strength

The base strength is 2% at full missionary funding, scaling down to 0% at no funding. Things that increase strength include:

Advisors: +2% from an Inquisitor advisor
Ideas: +3% from the Divine Supremacy idea in the Religious idea group, and several national ideas.
Stability: +0.5% for each point of positive stability
Piety: up to +3% for Muslim states that are pious
Fortress level: +0.1% for each fort level in a province
Decisions: A number of national decisions increase (or decrease) missionary strength.
Events: Many events give a temporary bonus (or penalty) to missionary strength.
Province's current religion: +2% in pagan provinces.

Unique national ideas which increase missionary strength:

5.0%: Najdi Traditions
3.0%: Colonial Ideas 3: Religous Outposts, Byzantine Ideas 7: Restore the Ecumenical Patriarch
2.0%: Spanish Ideas 2: Spanish Inquisition, Savoyard Ideas 4: Crush the Vaudois, Palatinate Ideas 5: Heidelberg Catechism, Indian Sultanate Ambitions, Divine Ideas 4: Let No Man Tolerate the Witch, Bavarian Ideas 4: Establish the Geistlicher Rat, Austrian Ideas 5: Edict of Restitution
1.0%: Tibetan Traditions, Novgorod Ideas 2: City of Churches, Hedjazi Ideas 6: Hajj, German Ideas 5: Cuius regio, eius religio, Ethiopian Ideas 5: The Ark of the Covenant, Breton Ideas 4: Breton Catholicism, Arabian Ideas 4: Spreading the Prophet's Word

Things that decrease this speed include:

Province's current religion: -2% in Coptic, Muslim and Shinto provinces.
Province's current religion: -1% in Orthodox provinces.
Culture: -2% for non-accepted cultures.
Provincial tax income: -0.5% for each point of a province's base tax.

For richer provinces it can make a huge difference to get those conversion bonuses.

First stability makes a huge difference. +3 stability is a major boon to conversion. Also if you know you are conquering some different religions try and hire a religious advisor. Several national decisions are only available with certain advisors active, look through the list to see some of them, and try and hire the appropriate advisor. They are usually a straight +1 missionary strength, but may have other bonuses or negatives. (one is something like +1 missionary, -3% tax or something along those lines)

To give you an idea of how powerful these bonuses can be, I’ll give an example from a long running campaign of mine. I conquered Kiev (ok integrated vassal Ukraine, but same difference). Now Kiev has high base tax, different culture (I was Prussia), and my stability was -1. The conversion time was fluctuating around between impossible and 1111 months to convert. So I took a few game years, boosted my stability to +2, hired the religious advisors (+2), enacted 3? national decisions worth an additional +3, and now the conversion was 24 months. Still longish, but completely doable.

One thing to note though, if you have a missionary doing conversion, watch revolt risk. It adds a huge revolt modifier to that province, and religious zealots can ruin your day. Basically if you have a province with high RR already, hold off or just park an army there.

As for cultural conversion, don’t. It’s not usually worth it. Monarch points are very valuable, and are often better spent doing almost anything else. The only time I really bother is when I have a mission, as the mission rewards are often enough to offset the costs. You are usually far better off using them on tech, idea groups, or buildings. In the long run multicultural countries are only slightly less effective than a homogenous one, and it really only is an issue at low stability.

I just can’t get ahead on stability. Every time I get +1 stability, some random event comes by and knocks it back down. I must have bought + stability 5 times and I am still sitting at a base rate of 0.

Welcome to EUIV. That was one of the things that killed the game for me.

-Tom

I think the idea is for 0 to be the “baseline”, i.e. the further below you are, the higher your chance to get an event increasing your stability - and vice versa.

The problem with this, of course, is that many players (me included) enjoy to have a beautifully running country at full stability, where the Emperor can hit the parks and avenues and enjoy some ice cream in the sun - but in many ways, EU4 is designed to take that icecream from you, throw it in the sand and laught in your face.

What destroyed the game for me (if you want to call it that) were the coalition mechanics - the negative stability events can easily be modded out or made to appear less often. Err … not that I would do such a thing.


rezaf

It is something that can be a problem. There are ways to mitigate this, but they’re fairly opaque unless you really know the systems.

First off comets suck. There is nothing you can do about them. Curse the sky and move on.

So one thing to know is that it costs much more to go from +1 to +2 stability than from 0 to +1. Same for +2 to +3. Generally speaking being at +1 should be your target. Admin points are extremely valuable, so wasting them on the stability tax isn’t always a great idea.

So how do you mitigate stability loss? One keep religious unity high. There is a really nasty event called ‘time of troubles’ that occurs if you have low religious unity. It can destroy you. If you get it put all your focus on bringing religious unity up. the game doesn’t tell you this clearly, and it’s hard to find the triggers, but if you get caught in this, it’s a snowball to -3 stability guaranteed. Spin off multiple non-state religion provinces, if need be, into a vassal state. Better to turn 3 provinces into a vassal than lose your country to war.

That’s only one thing, and something most likely during the protestant reformation, so what of all the other losses? One good way is to fill out the Diplomatic idea group. At the end of the group you get a bonus that reduces the stability cost for many decisions. In some cases, breaking royal ties for example, instead of costing prestige and -1 stability it would only cost the prestige. Very useful. It also helps remove the stability cost for some events. This alone is a huge boost.

Another thing is some decisions come with the choice of -1 stability or some loss of tax revenue, discipline, or other such modifier. It is almost always preferable (though occasionally not) to take the other option than -1 stability.

Filling out the idea groups also adds more events to the list of options. Simply by adding more events, certain ones are less likely to occur. Think of it like a lottery, there are X number of balls, and when it decides to draw one you get the result. By making the number X+10 any individual negative event is less likely. Since the basic events tend to have more -1 stability than the idea group events this helps dilute, and reduce the odds of, those coming up.

In particular religious is a good group because it adds several +1 stability events. Note you only have to have the idea group picked, not finished, to get most events. Economics has one, administrative as well. Several of the military ones have negative stability events, but they are usually a choice where you can opt for some reduction in military instead. Just know that the more positive your stability is, the more likely generic events are that give you negative stability.

So basically just stay around 0 or +1, unless an event bumps you up. Diplomatic and religious groups help a lot, though administrative is useful too. More idea groups is better, as it improves your odds.

I can understand why you get frustrated Tom, it can be annoying for sure. At the same hand it’s one of the mechanics that provides the most push back against player expansion. It throws a wrench into those well greased gears I’m turning, and if I’m not paying attention to internal affairs at the time it can really be disruptive. In time it does become another tool in an experienced players belt, and a way to disrupt your enemies.

EDIT TO REPLY TO REZAF:

Coalitions are interesting. I’ve poked around the Paradox forums, so I know why some people hate the mechanics, I just happen to disagree. Yes once you get a certain size you can just bounce around different regions so that, say, Russia and Lithuania coalition you, you move to your west and beat up France and Spain. By the time you move east again Russia has left the coalition, etc. Honestly though once a player becomes that powerful there isn’t many meaningful ways to truly threaten that player. They’ve won, and are just painting the map now. It does make you be more careful in the early game though, and I like the decisions it forces at that point.

Awesome post, Craig. You say to think of it as a lottery, but what you’ve described reminds me of a card-driven boardgame, where you can seed the deck of random events with more advantageous cards. I never really thought of Paradox’s event system in that way precisely because it is so opaque.

-Tom

I am continuing my game as Castle and have researched the first 3 ideas for exploration, which gives me the 50% range for colonies.
The big problem is that everything I can find is out of range. There are a few island groups but somehow Portugal owns everything. I was looking at some techs but nothing jumped out that would increase my range even further. If I get port rights from portugal, will that let me colonize in the new world?

It used to, but I think that was patched out some time ago. The standard approach for Castile back in the vanilla game was to colonize the west coast of Africa, then jump to Brazil, and then finally hit the Caribbean. I don’t know if that works with the expansions, however.

Is it worth Westernizing when playing as an Eastern nation? I’m playing my first game as Poland and the option to Westernize has arrived but I’ve never done this before and the tooltip makes it sound pretty nasty with -3 stability and 2400 total monarch power. I take it as you Westernize you’ll fall even more behind in tech?

The prevailing opinion I hear tends towards no (at least that was the case originally, before they overhauled westernization in CoP), but I always do. That being said, there’s no need to rush it. Eastern units don’t really fall behind much until 20+ land tech.

To comment more on stability, if you want to run a nation at +3 stability a lot play Poland. I think they can get their stability costs down to like 35 admin power per increase so you can almost always run at +3 stability. I view the stability issue as skill and it is rarely a problem if you know what you’re doing (not trying to be an ass here but I really believe this). You need to always make sure to keep a reserve of admin points in EU4. You’ll never know when an important event, war (taking provinces), or stability hit will pop up. Granted there are some tough events at times (changing religion, peasants wars, etc) but generally staying at 0 or +1 stability most of the time is very possible. You also need to get comfortable and realize 0 or +1 is the target, not +3.

The key to managing admin points is:

-Take advisors when needed (low admin stat King)
-Don’t go for higher than +1 stability unless you have excess points
-Don’t waste points getting admin tech early unless you have excess points
-Take event options to preserve/gain admin points
-Take event options to get more stability
-Always fabricate claims on provinces you take
-Make ample use of vassals (so don’t always use admin points to core!)
-Avoid unnecessary stability hits such as breaking truces, etc

Admin points should generally be your highest priority to conserve as they can mess up your nation if wasted very quickly. Military points are a close second but that’s mainly for teching purely and doesn’t have as many widespread uses so it’s much easier to manage long term. Diplomat points can be wasted much easier even as trade or naval based nations. So if you get an event choosing between costing ADM, DIP or MIL points almost always pick to lose DIP. Likewise if you get a positive event almost always pick ADM points. If you get an event that grants +1 stability almost always go for it even if you need to take out loans or other minor bad stuff. It just comes with experience if you play enough EU4.

Yeah, I’m not trying to convince anyone here, I just stated the fact that this is what killed my desire to play more EU4. And it’s entirely possible the mechanics were tweaked considerably since then.
Anyway, even in the implementation I’m familiar with, I agree that it CAN “force” interesting decisions early on … but then again, all it achieves is causing you to pepper out your conquests a bit between different areas/fronts/religions etc.
I don’t think this is really particularly useful in putting a damper on player growth, but this early coalition mechanic is fine with me.
The late game functionality is what killed it for me - eventually, the superpowers of the world will all throw their hats in with each other AND with insignificant minors they shouldn’t give a darn about just to make sure you stop expanding.
If, as the Ottomans, you declare war on Ethiopia, should Russia, Spain, England, France and Austria really want to go to war with you to ensure you don’t get those further two provinces?
Not only that, is it reasonable that these superpowers that make this decision then are able to call in all their various minor and major allies to make sure you suddenly have armies from all over the world ravaging your entire country just to defend a two province minor at the end of the world? Obviously your answer is yes, but mine is no.
Unless you twiddle your thumbs for a century, those coalitions essentially never dissolve, and you’re left with the undercooked empire management portion of the game.

This is less of a problem if you play a colonial game with Portugal or even a more mixed one with the likes of Spain, but if you’re the Ottomans and basically have to constantly be at war if you want to try and match what the historical Ottomans achieved, the mechanic will eventually result in the choices “Stop playing (/doing ANYTHING)” and “Global war with most everyone of note for which - if you manage to come out on top - you MAYBE get one or two additional provinces”.

Heh, darn, just thinking of the mechanic aggravates me even though I haven’t played in earnest for at least half a year. Sorry for the rant, I’ll stop here.


rezaf

I now have several overseas colonies. These are established ones that have finished being built.

I would expect that my money income wound increase, yet it has decreased. I went from making like 8 gold a month to a net loss of 2 gold per month.
One colony even has gold as a resource (I spent admin points to lower inflation, it is below 2%). Its taxable income is listed at like 60, yet some how I am now making less money that I was before the colony was even founded.

I totally do not get how this economic thing works. Can someone explain the basics to me? I can also build the first rank of basic province upgrades although I do not know which one to choose. I see one that improves production efficiency by 20%, one thing for tradepower increases and yet another, temples that produce extra income. I built a bunch of those in my main country and it didn’t see to make much difference in my monthly income.

Coalitions, aggressive expansion, rivals (WoN) , AI trust (CoP?), late game over extension (WoN) have all changed significantly. There’s even ways to directly reduce AE now (WoN)! You might want to try EU4 again rezaf. I’ll need to play a crazy war monger to know for sure but I think you’d agree most of the changes are in a direction you’d probably agree with. The changes might not go far enough for you but they are fairly major. In my Russia game (which I still need to go back to) I’ve had virtually no problems with coalitions yet despite taking half of Lithuania. I can’t think of any previous EU4 version where that’d be the case. The AI is also smarter now I’d say and more willing to ally pragmatically. It also lets you build trust over time. So say if you freed Sweden (support independence), then built trust with them (fighting wars together, giving them land, etc) and kept relations high they’d likely stay your ally as Russia all game. I don’t think such a thing was possible in any previous versions.

DeepT increase your tariffs (25 ADM per increase). If you increase them a bunch at once (try not to go over 45% liberty desire) you’ll likely get a pop-up decreasing liberty desire by 5% right after. You can also go for ideas or policies which increase tariffs. For instance exploration ideas contain an idea for 20% tariff increase. Also don’t forget to trade as colonies give you trade power in their nodes.

I totally do not get how this economic thing works. Can someone explain the basics to me? I can also build the first rank of basic province upgrades although I do not know which one to choose. I see one that improves production efficiency by 20%, one thing for tradepower increases and yet another, temples that produce extra income. I built a bunch of those in my main country and it didn’t see to make much difference in my monthly income.

The simplest thing to do is use the production overlay. This will show you at a glance the most efficient places to put your buildings to get the most tax income or trade power. The early game economy is tough for most countries though. It’s very easy to overextend.