Now we’re talking!
As always, the answer is “It depends on a person-by-person and case-by-case basis.” There’s no other answer. We can go back and forth all day about Lovecraft’s racism, but no matter how much it’s put in front of some people, they’re still gonna like the books. It’s the same with Michael Jackson, or Kevin Spacey, or whomever. Some people can, some people can’t. Either way, it’s a personal thing.
In generally I agree it’s personal. It’s kind of a personal equation.
As part of that equation I feel like there is some kind of weighed average. Jefferson OWNED SLAVES. Louis C.K. masturbated in front of unwilling victims. Lovecraft wrote some racist letters and had a terribly named cat.
Also, you have to weigh the impact of their work. Clearly Jefferson is more impactful than Louis C.K.
Oh, yeah, I definitely blame @Telefrog
Soon we’ll be talking about Leni Riefenstahl again too. Ok, cool we can do this again. It must be the time for the Qt3 annual “Art versus Artist” discussion.
Re: “Man of his time” discussions in general, The You Must Remember This podcast did a series on Disney’s Song of the South, where they address and grapple with that argument as it’s been applied to that film. It’s an interesting exploration. (Spoiler: a lot of people considered it racist at the time, too).
While we can claim it’s a personal decision, if one of us (let’s say me) said “I don’t care about the racist stuff, I love Lovecraft and want to read all his stuff and just don’t care”, I would say there would be harsh peer pressure (at least here) to judge this negatively.
So is it a personal decision? Or is it driven by the outrage of the others around us?
Compare this statement:
“I don’t care about the racist stuff, I love Lovecraft and want to read all his stuff and just don’t care.”
With this one:
I’ve made my peace with Lovecraft. It’s an uneasy peace, and entirely selfish because I know he was a nutty racist and I think some of that did inform his work, but it’s the sci-fi and horror I grew up with. I love it too much to let it go. I know that offends some people, and I’m sorry for that. I know Lovecraft’s prominence in nerd culture and literature is an insult to many, and I deeply regret that I cannot separate my memories of reading his stories under cover of darkness even as I acknowledge his reprehensible views.
I can only be aware of the issue and take from Lovecraft those elements that do not offend. Tentacled monsters, cosmic horror, the pinprick of hellish discovery, and a yawning sense of doom brought by indifferent gods. Where they clash - the degenerate foreign cultists, inbred country folk, and outright bigotry - I must swallow my pride and admit that I tolerate it because I want to get to “the good stuff” that still delights me.
I’m glad that writers and creators have begun to address his racism directly while taking from his Mythos. They too, seem to have made an uneasy peace with Lovecraft.
Which do you think gets received better by Lovecraft’s targets?
Yeah, there’s a big difference between “I don’t care about the racism” (which, come on, is never going to get you very far with almost anyone) and “I recognize the racism but can still pull enjoyment of certain aspects of the work.”
That’s an interesting question. Certainly the latter because of the framing.
Follow up question. Does your outrage have to be my outrage? If my outrage does not match your outrage, is that itself outrageous?
Because if it is, we are trending very much toward Groupthink. You may think is this great when it’s your outrage, but might not love it when it’s someone else’s you must align to.
Huge difference. Evil Hat is choosing this and just a little more. Many people have chosen this, and there isn’t a voice for boycotting in this topic that I am aware of. Of course even if someone doesn’t care about racism… or chooses to ignore it, they basically have to recognize it’s there in the first place. Ignorance should not be a purposeful position to take.
Is it groupthink when the majority of folks agree that the KKK are a bunch of assholes? Draw your own line, but don’t be surprised if an opinion isn’t popular.
Aren’t most human reactions based in part on those around us? I think we’re hardwired that way.
Personally, I try to avoid enriching reprehensible people. For me, that list includes Orson Scott Card, Scott Adams, Papa John, Curt Schilling, etc.
I’m not going to boycott the work of awful dead people, though, as they don’t benefit from me buying their work. I can read Lovecraft without feeling that somehow enriches him or supports his racism.
So yeah that’s a bit different than an artist and his or her work. I was trying to concentrate on that but I see your point.
The game’s creative director further inputs in a Tweet-thread:
https://twitter.com/sblackmoore/status/1220471251962957824
Actual text for those who don’t feel like clicking:
So good.
You could cut and paste Lovecrafts racist descriptions into my bio and they would be fairly accurate. I do swarthy really well. And my ancestors are cannibals out of deepest, darkest Borneo and danced their way across many a disturbing picture plate in a strange book owned by a terrible old man. I dont really give a shit Lovecraft was a racist, I fucking love the Cthulhu Mythos, have done since I was a teenager. From a selfish point of view (decades of entertainment) the positive outweighs the negative. His main crime today is his existence perpetuates an endless circular and ultimately pointless argument about his racism. It’s not as if any of the far right/supremacist movements base their ideology on his works, themselves a drop in the ocean when it comes to Mythos content. Much of the cycle is from other authors too, Dereleth, Bloch, Campbell, Lumley etc
I’m far more bothered about *ists who are alive rather than this dead guy. I was when i was a teenager and first read Cthulhu and I am now. (when it was, ironically, an escape from racist bullying at school)
If someone really wants to boycott the products of a dead guy they can, but I’m not going to try and remove the Ford from your drive or Roald Dahl from your bookshop, its a personal choice.
Agree with the comments re: the living vs the dead. I think in part thats because we know whose work is now if historical or artistic importance. I take their awfulness and note it, never excusing or turning a blind eye just reading it with their horribleness in context.
All my boycotts (and outright throwing in the trash from my library) have been reserved for living authors, none of whome’s work outweighs their scumbaggery
Without wanting to Godwin the thread, I still own the writings of Hitler and Stalin who were not just scumbags but actually killed people.
Heh.
I wonder if someone is going to go down some sort of checklist about how much softer this guy should be. Is he too dramatic; maybe he is just interpreting it all wrong or maybe, my favorite, ask him if it’s okay to just ignore racism and let people decide. Maybe, maybe he’s presented himself as undecided on that.
Partially, though the process started before that. Voting is what really did it. Once the Irish were here and efforts to restrict their voting failed or were stillborn, their political power made them defacto members of the white cult. Ditto for Italians.
I don’t have a problem with people liking Lovecraft’s work despite his racism - that is largely where I land, for what it’s worth. I also don’t have a problem with people quite understandably finding that a huge roadblock to their enjoyment. What I do have a problem with is people deciding the fact that they like his work means his work (or the author himself, at a further extreme) is not in fact racist. Because it fucking is.
That was great. Shared it with my wife who immediately told me we are buying the book, just for that (well, also the fact the she has recently started playing DnD with me recently and wouldn’t trying another system).