1801

The auto-battle system still needs a bit more tweaking. Sometimes it will kill your ranged glass cannon against melee units even if you have ample tough melee units to protect them.

edit: in the tactical battles, add in the spell list that pop ups when you press “spell” the mana needed for each one.

edit 2: you could have warned that the “double strike” aibility is only melee, it doesn’t work with ranged weapons. ¬¬

edit 3: maybe you should make the xp gain for normal units a bit faster, around 25-30% more, so they can compete a bit better against hero progression.

edit 4: I was wrong, there is a strategic version of the Heal spell, but strangely it isn’t in any of the spell categories, it can only be seen in the “all” category.

1802

Spell balance.

Nature’s Call is a bit expensive, it just give a normal animal unit. Reduce it to 20-25 mana. BTW, it always have the “wolf howl” sound effect, even when you summon a naga, which is not ideal.

Focus seems a nice spell, different than the rest, but make it a bit more expensive mana wise and drop the cast time needed. If you need two turns to cast it, and then two turns to cast a decent spell like Fireball, then you are already near the end of the battle, it’s a bit of a waste.

Storm also doesn’t do so much damage (only 20 + shards to a single unit) as to need an extra turn of casting time. Improve the damage, or make it affect two units, if you want to keep the cast time.

Stoneskin leaves you vulnerable to blunt damage, so imo it should give +4 defense, instead of +3. A slight buff.

Propaganda also needs a slight buff, +2 gildar per essence isn’t that much (usually you have 1 or 2 essence, so it only gives 2-4 gildar). Maybe +3?

Touch of Darkness, it should give a bit more spell mastery than the hit points it substracts. Why? Because Hit points are usually better, more important than a slight boost to the chance of spells working, even for a mage champion. Maybe +5 spell mastery, -3hp?

You can’t dispel “anointed by fire” ??

1803

They only seem to keep you penned in. You can avoid them very easily and they chase at most 1 or 2 turns (and don’t know how to use terrain yet it seems). So you can do it with anyone, but I’m you sure can beeline with Tarth and Urxis or whoever it is that has stealth.

1804

Isn’t the elemental damage a bit… boring? Right now the difference between making an unit with a fire staff and making it with a normal bow is negligible. “fire attack” is just a normal attack with the bonus of not being blocked by normal defenses (blunt/pierce/cutting) and instead affected by elemental resistances (fire vulnerability, immunity or protection).

Maybe it should have unique effects? Give ice a chance of freezing units, lightning a chance of maybe chain-attacking units, fire doing damage over time, etc.

1805

Suppose so, yeah. I remember this same issue cropped up with Diablo 3, leaving us pretty much just with ice slowing and poison doing DoT, but fire/lightning/holy not doing jack shit other than adding damage and being effected by different resists than physical. Sort of makes you wonder why when things like Element TD in War3 custom maps got this right so many years ago ;)

1806

The more I play the more this type of “boring design” seems to surface. I think the game could use a healthy dose of random effects added to the foundation.

For example, after you have played a few games you know exactly what types of weapons most of the wildland creatures and particular quest monsters are going to have. There is no individual variability.

It’s odd that they didn’t add in a random factor of weapon and armor types based on the creature genres as well as a chance for a small number of individual traits for that particular monster. (Example: A stack of bandits with one bandit with a sword and shield and +dodge trait and another with an axe and a +attack trait. Instead of the homogeneity you get now.)

This also crops up in the nations you fight. They only know those basic unit types until you play them, unlock the techs to create a unit and make one to use yourself. Then after you have done that the AI can build the unit you created for that race.

Why didn’t someone just go through and make a bunch of optimal and divergent types of units for each race so you didn’t have to play long games with each race to give them some options when creating units?

1807

I think the problem is the base of the game is still one of the most dull, boring fantasy games ever done: Elemental: War of Magic.

Fallen Enchantress improves every part, the factions, the weapons, the monsters, the magic, everything is a bit more distinct and interesting, but there were so many parts it needed to improve they couldn’t fix it all at 100%. There are some limits when the very base is like that. At some point is better to start anew instead of improving the flawed old base.

Say, even if the factions of FE are improved in comparison to WoM, they still don’t hold a candle compared to FFH2.

1808

I think much more could be done in this regard, but I don’t think it’s fundamentally flawed.

I do think random “higher quality” loot would be a nice idea though. Stardock could learn something from Steven Peeler here.

AI should have some more units added into it (though it does already- I’ve seen it myself)

Prestige being useless does bother me some, your cities grow to their pop cap way too quickly- I only build the tower in a city I conquer.

1809

That’s an interesting observation. What components of WOM do you think were carried over to FE that make you feel this way?

The combat system in FE has nothing in common with WOM. The magic system is different. The factions, while having the same names, are completely different.

But I am (and I am sure Derek is too) very interested in which areas you think were held over from WOM. Looking back, I didn’t think any of the WOM mechanics could be salvaged. That’s why it took so long to do FE.

1810

I agree it improves every part of WOM and I agree that it is a low bar to start from but the pieces are there, just not implemented into the game. I didn’t expect (but hoped beyond hope) that more of FFH2 would bleed into FE. You can definitely see slivers of core design principles however I don’t know if there was enough time/resources to fully flesh out based on what lore he was given to work with. This is why the “no soul” comment that has been thrown around is accurate IMO.

It’s clear they wanted this game to have replayability as a bullet point from the way quests work as well as the shift of factions to be more unique but I don’t think some of the core aspects of the game were addressed.

I would like to see would be a higher percentage of damage on higher tier weapons be elemental (40-50%) so that they can finesse the math of base damage (right now it scales way too high in the endgame) and require higher level defense to invest in different stats.

Along with that the accuracy formula and more ‘glancing’ blows for lower burst damage. Range (accuracy, damage or both) penalties for bows since there doesn’t seem to be one right now. I wish there was also either LOS or penalties for terrain (and if possible units, though this isn’t near as important as terrain) on bows.

And as long as I’m putting out a wishlist, Elemental lords with better spell resistance. Man they get pounded by every single spell and are way to easy to shrink and make laughably easy. Reduced exp for champions as long as they are in a stack with other champions to slow the XP curve and create incentive to have leaders of multiple stacks. Quests where you recieve a portion of XP along with whatever reward for alternate methods of finishing it (buying your way) to create more incentive. On that line, quests that have more ways to finish them with your resources (I.E. Fight enemy at Full strength or give X gildar or give us 5 horses and Fight just the Champion or 10 crystal and you get temporary Air Elemental for that battle to fight with you) with different rewards based on how you choose to handle the problem.

You know, stuff that they probably didn’t have time to do.

1811

Maybe it’s not the mechanics, where the production, growth, economy, resources etc is all changed, but the base content.

It’s clear to me you have taken the content of the first game (say, creatures, weapons, factions, spells) and then worked over it, adding and fixing stuff. Adding some new traits to make the monsters more unique, and adding a few new creatures, adding damage types and balancing to weapons, adding new spells or changing a bit the old ones, adding a pair of unique perks to every race, adding new improvements and reworking the economy, etc.

You say that the factions are “are completely different!!” (exclamations added for dramatic purposes). But how much is different, quantitatively speaking?? Are they enough different to say “completely”?? They are more different, but it’s something in a scale, instead of being something binary (yes/no), it could have been done still more, and imo right now isn’t even enough to say the word “completely”.
2-3 unique perks given to each faction (sometimes being something not that radical like a pair of unique alternative equipment or a small base stat modifier) isn’t enough to say that much.

Likewise, magic is still not at the level of Master of Magic (or say, Dominions 3), I would say it’s slightly behind from AoWSM. Creatures are still far away from Age of Wonders, some stuff from MoM, or even Heroes games or King’s Bounty (if you let me stray more far away from 4x games). Races are still far away from FFH2 and some stuff from Illwinter games (and the static units from AoW was less flexible but it served the purpose of giving different feelings to each race). Etc
Fantasy 4x is a fairly “resource intensive” TBS subgenre. You need a good number of artists, designers, and coders to make all those cool spells, abilities, units, monsters, races, etc. I think you noticed it a bit too late, in the WoM development.

And let’s not talk about the tactical combat. Again, still not enough far away from WoM.
Couldn’t you put some crude, basic modifiers? Nothing uber complex. Like +acc/+def in hill tiles, +att flanking bonuses attacking from the sides/back, +att if you attack someone already “touching” two of your units (swarming, as proposed in other forum).

Let’s say WoM is a 3.5/10. FE is a 7/10, but still not a 9-10/10.

1812

Hey Brad, I realize this is most likely on the bottom of the totem pole in terms of importance, but can we get an overhaul of the clothing / faces / hair and the posture system at some point in the near future?

1813

Tactical combat needs terrain modifiers, range accuracy penalties, cover, and zones of control. My spears should be able to strike at those who try to walk around them. I know tactical battles aren’t a huge part of the game but several concepts could be taken from Age of Wonders to make it vastly more interesting.

I’d also like to see races that play with different mechanics ala FFH2 vampires, dwarves, the pyre zombie guys, etc.

That being said, it needs to be understood that this is Fallen Enchantress 1.0. I don’t see these things so much as flaws as areas ripe for improvement in expansions and sequels. What I see is a very solid foundation and a pretty good game that oozes potential for continued development. I rank it as a very promising TBS franchise, something we don’t have an abundance of.

1814

If having magic at the level of Master of Magic means some of the flaws of Master of Magic, I’d rather just not have it. I want a game with a functioning AI, and fantasy game AI is the hardest AI to make outside of fighting game AI.

Some of these suggestions would really harm the game in my opinion. It’s not meant to be Master of Magic, it’s meant to be Fallen Enchantress.

I’m not saying FE is perfect, it has some minor flaws, and needs to be expanded, but if you’re that fixated on MoM, I don’t think any strategy game will ever appeal to you again. I know the feeling, as Kohan ruined all future RTS’s for me in what I guess is much the same way. (and is why I really want Stardock to make a Kohan-style RTS in the Elemental universe, but it will never happen)

1815

I named several other games apart from MoM! :P
and saying “magic like MoM” is just a shorthand for “more spells, more variety, more power”. It doesn’t have to literally be like MoM.

Being honest, I suspect they are constrained by time/money, more than by AI. Twenty guys is just not enough to make a modern 3d game version of the old 4x fantasy games. Ideally, you should have 40 guys (or more).

1816

That would be a Derek call but I’d suspect that’s kind of an expensive proposition.

1817

I like the postures!

1818

That’s a very reasoned analysis. Thanks for going into more detail.

Broadly speaking, it sounds like what Kael wanted to make and what you wanted out of it just don’t coincide.

What I meant by the factions being completely different is relative to WOM. That is, faction differentiation comes in the form of unique units, unique spells, unique abilities. In WOM, the differences were stat based.

Tactical combat in WOM was turn-based (Side A moved units, Side B moved units). In FE it’s initiative based. It’s, to use the word “completely” again, it’s “completely different”. The spell system has cool downs and casting times and such.

I know terrain modifiers were discussed a great deal during development. As the AI guy, I would have liked to have seen them (another thing for the AI to make us of). But the overall philosophy was that what you brought to the tactical battle was far far more important than your skill in fighting tactical battles. I agree it’s a delicate balance.

A lot of design decisions have to take into account the target audience and what they care about. Challenging computer players vs. more open ended game mechanics. I love MOM as much as the next person but it’s AI had a lot of difficulty keeping up with players.

Obviously, this is just my opinion. My role is one of programmer than designer. I think FE is at the point where whether its a 7/10 or a 9-10/10 is heavily based on what one is looking for out of a 4X fantasy strategy game.

1819

I agree with everything you just wrote here.

If we consider FE the start of a new fantasy franchise ala GalCiv 1,there’s a lot of room to grow with the engine.

1820

I’d love to have 20 guys! I think we had about half that full time on it. ;-)