Yeah selling more than 2 million copies (just on the PC) is TERRIBLE.
It’s not so much a matter of precluding other games as it is an acknowledgment that every developer has finite resources: time & money spent on a MotS sequel is time & money not being spent on an “innovative” spinoff.
Why should, say, a Warhammer 40k first person shooter automatically disqualify another Dawn of War RTS?
Actually, Warhammer is a good example of a franchise which has supported numerous types of games: RTS (DoW), TBS (Rites of War), FPS (Fire Warrior), MMORPG (WH Online), even a hybrid like Space Hulk. They haven’t all been good games, but at least they were in different genres. And some of them tried to push the envelope: e.g., DoW rejiggered the traditional RTS formula; Dark Omen was focused on tactical battles, kinda like Myth.
Well, at this point I suppose we get bogged down in pedantic arguments about what we mean by “innovation.” While Diablo built on the foundation of roguealikes before it, I thought it brought enough new stuff to the table - in terms of interface design, graphics, multiplayer, etc. - to earn the Innovation Badge.
To me, “innovation” doesn’t mean “reinventing the wheel,” it’s more like fusion cuisine: combining existing ingredients in unique recipes. Sure, lots of times you’ll wind up with something which just tastes weird; but every once in a while you’ll hit upon something like “chocolate + peanut butter.”
Now that I think about it some more, I wish Blizzard did what Valve did: go out looking for talented upstarts with unique ideas and help them bring them to fruition. How awesome would Blizzard’s RTS counterpart to “Portal” be?
Sol: Saying that you wish the most successful developer of recent times didn’t use that position to try something even slightly risky isn’t in any way controversial, and saying He Can’t Say That because he works for Bethesda is just peverse. It’s hard enough to get Developers to say anything even SLIGHTLY resembling their real opinion on another dev without you turning something like this into a witch-hunt.
I mean, Will Wright after the Sims did Spore. Blizzard after WoW, do Diablo III and Starcraft II.
DIII especially looks ace, but you kind of hope they’d taken a braver route.
KG
To be fair, it is a precarious time to be saying such things. “I wish they’d take riskier projects” just might make that Large Hadron Collider create a micro black hole that’ll devour the Earth. It could also destabilize the Middle East. Failing that, it could cause an economic collapse at home.
Precarious indeed. Be ever vigilant.
Actually, while Ghost was initially done by Nihilistic, it did end up technically having some work done at an internal Blizzard team. After Nihilistic, Blizzard had Swingin’ Ape Studios (former Hydro Thunder guys who also did Metal Arms) work on it, and had actually bought Swingin’ Ape. SA was rebranded as “Blizzard Console”, but after Ghost was put on indefinite hold, “Blizzard Console” was dissolved and that team was spread out among WoW, SC2, etc.
if you wish to make a difference in a game or genre, best thing to do is make one yourself or get hire on as a developer.
otherwise you can twiddle your thumbs and whine about it on a forum/blog.
I’m surprised at the few posts that are bashing Fallout 3 and Bethesda. I’m especially perplexed by those that feel the need to bag on Oblivion because it had the audacity to be a great console game along with a great PC game. This stuff sounds like hate for hate’s sake and I really can’t understand the source of that at all.
It seems to me this whole thread was created not to discuss Diablo 3, but to take a crap on Fallout 3 for not sticking to the gameplay of Fallout 2. This essentially boils down to people bitching that Bethesda wants to make a commercially viable game that fits with this generation. I’m not saying that an isometric RPG couldn’t succeed, but Bethesda has proven they can do quality first person RPG experiences and it makes a lot of sense for them to stick with that. I think the more rabid Fallout fans would actually prefer not to have any Fallout 3 than what Bethesda is going to deliver to PC gamers and console heathens alike. Personally, I think FO3 is going to be phenomenal and I can’t wait to get my hands on it.
What’s risky about Fallout 3 ? it’s the equivalent of a summer flick starring an american saving the world.
I think Bethesda can learn a thing or two from Blizzard in regarding to game polishing.
horrible bugs and crappy animations = oblivion
That’s an excellent comparison because, like a summer blockbuster, the Fallouts are the biggest selling RPG franchises in history. OH WAIT AGAIN.
Please tell me what was so great about Oblivion, Steve.
Apart from the fact that it was a great bore to a great many people.
Sure, it was successful, but so is Deer Hunter.
Besides that, I don’t see anything particularly innovative about Fallout 3. From what it looks like, it’s like STALKER set in the Oblivion engine. Bethesda’s been developing the same kind of first person RPG since Arena. I’d like to know what’s so innovative about the latest iteration.
You might have a point if it was the original Fallout developers deciding to turn Fallout 3 into a first person shooter, since it’s something they hadn’t done before, but Bethesda’s just making more of the same thing they’ve been doing for over a decade now. How’s that innovative? The only ‘innovation’ I saw in Oblivion, up from Morrowind, was their so-called dialogue system that was undeniably a piece of crap. Try defending that.
edit: Also, Fallout 3 looks like it’s going to take place in the Post Apocalyptic Land of the Uncanny Valley.
The title of this thread should be changed to “Sol Invictus Disappointed in Fallout 3’s Producer”.
The source is the only real rival to Disneyland as the Happiest Place on Earth, a little internet gem called No Mutants Allowed.
Come on, don’t let pesky facts get in the way of Foxstab’s rant. Oblivion is only a game for poor little kids and their weenie consoles, remember?
Sol, does it bother you in the least that in this thread the only people who aren’t trying to convince you that you’re reading way too much into the blog entry are Foxstab and Draiken?
And all they’re doing is cutting and pasting from their NMA “Bethesda Sucks” Template ™.
Ha ha ha! I especially like how this list is presented as straight-up fact:
Bethesda has:
Completely reimagined Fallout to look like a Post-Nuclear version of Oblivion, much to every gamer’s chagrin
Pissed off the majority of their fan base with ignorance, arrogance and misunderstanding of the Fallout franchise
Signed shoddy deals with game journalists (what journalists?) to limit the flow of information with regards to Fallout 3
Compounded their mistakes with lies towards the fan base about how the game isn’t anything close to being “Oblivion with guns”, despite the fact that several of those “journalists” confirmed that the game does indeed feel that way.
Had a guy who has no idea what he’s talking about represent the company
This stuff cracks me up. They might’ve pissed off the majority of the utterly rabid Fallout 1 & 2 fans, but that small number of people will in no way offset the many people that will buy FO3 that have never played a Fallout game and are drawn in by the new gameplay and the Bethesda/Oblivion association. To say that FO3’s look is to “every gamer’s chagrin” is insanely off base. I think those guys need to get out and visit other corners of the internet where their singularly focused notions hold no sway.
Okay, that does bother me a little.
Even that’s not really true: I count myself as an utterly rabid Fallout fan, in that Fallout 2 is my favourite RPG of all-time on any platform, but I’m still looking forward to Fallout 3. The NMA crowd likes to think they’re the only “true” fans of Fallout but they are, like in most things, wildly mistaken.
I can’t say what’s innovative about FO3 with any authority because the game isn’t even out yet. The VATS system looks like an interesting melding of turn-based and real-time action, but I’ve never been hands-on, so I don’t know. I’m not sure what your obsession with innovation is. I don’t think I mentioned it. I don’t necessarily need innovation, and a game definitely doesn’t have to be innovative to be good.
I had an absolute blast with Oblivion logging at least 60 hours with the game. That’s a real rarity for me. I liked the mix of open world wandering, loot collecting, and quest progression. It was compulsively playable to me, and if that formula is applied to the Fallout setting, hell, that’s all I need.
I’m sorry you have some kind of axe to grind with Bethesda, but it’s no skin off my nose if you don’t like Oblivion or FO3. Millions will buy the game and while that’s not necessarily a gauge on quality, I think it speaks to the fact that Bethesda makes games people want to buy. They must be doing something right.
I was simply pointing out that your post took a pretty innocuous comment from a Bethesda dev and used it to get out a dig on Bethesda itself. I don’t know why, when the comment you quote is 95% positive and 5% wish that Blizzard had done something a little different. The guy has a right to his opinion. Heck, I read it like a simple statement of what Blizzard would’ve done in his ideal scenario. The guy still said he was pumped for Diablo 3.
I really can’t say I’m looking forward to Fallout 3, and it’s not because I like Fallout or anything like that. I just didn’t enjoy Oblivion, which felt like a huge step backwards from what Morrowind had to offer at times. I can attest to the fact that I fell asleep a few times while playing Oblivion. Falling asleep while playing a game has only ever happened to me in long sessions of Civilization 2 and World of Warcraft and it only happened those times because I hadn’t slept for a really long time, due to long sessions of gaming. With Oblivion, the sleep kind of kicked in about an hour or two in every time I’d try to play it.
Now, I don’t know if it could actually be an engine issue (e.g. motion related) or if the game was genuinely boring. All I know is that it put me to sleep, and I can’t say I’m looking forward to having a recurrence of that experience in Fallout 3.