And for what it’s worth, I’m still finding new stuff as I play through this game, after 136 hours. New locations, new items, new quests, new NPCs. Not much in the way of new dialog, but there’s still a ton of that too. Though if I hear raiders arguing about quitting Jet one more time, I may just go all DEA on them. Wait, I already do, never mind.

BTW, a stealth, VATS, silencer build is pretty freakin fun.

True, but some of the overheard raider dialogue is awesome. “And get this, the only thing the guy had on him was a desk fan. Who the hell carries around a desk fan?”

Haven’t heard that one, that’s epic. Because, um, I DO carry around desk fans. Right now, I’m always short of screws.

My favorite dialogue so far is the hot dog/sandwich argument, but there’s a whole lot of really good overheard dialogue.

He’s right, you know. A hot dog is a sandwich. It took FO4 to make me understand that.

Yeah, it’s worth not going in guns blazing to hear raider stories:)

One of the things I love about this game, and I don’t think many other RPGs (if any) do this, is the way that NPCs will fight with each other, even when you’re nowhere around. In most RPGs, everything that’s hostile to you will generally ignore each other, even if that isn’t terribly realistic, but that’s not the case here. Raiders will fight with Supermutants. Bloatflies will harrass Scavengers. A Deathclaw will wipe out a Gunner camp. And so on. I think it’s awesome, and also the kind of thing you can use to your advantage if you play it right.

One time, during my wanderings of Boston, I happened across a dead Legendary Super Mutant Master. At the time, those were pretty tough enemies for me, and I thought to myself, “Wow, I wonder what killed this guy??” (As I looted him, of course.) Several steps later I encountered a Legendary Raider Leader… who was already on half health. Well, that answered that question… and fortunately a half dead Legendary Raider Leader was easy to finish off.

I came across two alpha Deathclaws duking it out. That was pretty epic. I stayed out of their way. But when I see caravans getting raided, it depends on which character I’m playing. The goody two shoes helps the guards. The not so goody one just waits to see who wins and loots the losers. The mean one shoots the guards and the raiders and loots them all.

Read the doctor’s PC on the BOS airship. There’s a combined “Ewww” and funny entry about STD’s :)

I was creeping up on a camp and suddenly heard gunfire and explosions going off. Turns out a Glowing Deathclaw wandered into the camp. I watched it treat through everything and then hightailed it out of there before it noticed me. Love the AI in this game! Bethesda does the best, most complicated emergent AI currently in the entire game industry. The fact there is a decent shooter there is just gravy for me.

All the praise just makes it sound like Diablo with a whole bunch of crafting stuff.

I think games in general are going this grinding/collection sort of way now. The markets changed with the social gaming phenomenon. Just an observation.

Except that very little of the praise is about that. The game is nothing like Diablo and I have no idea how you could have gotten that from this thread.

I think it’s fairly distinct from the ARPG/Diablo genre, though. There is no grinding per se, as gaining levels just refines what you’re doing and helps you focus it, rather than granting you new and amazing things. You can finish the main quest at a wide span of levels, too, and there is no “end game” content you have to grind to. There is a much more randomized radiant AI at work, much more varied than, say, the simple randomization of monster affixes that you get in Diablo. The gameworld is also, IMO, more detailed and requires more user involvement than most ARPGs. Crafting is actually more necessary in a game like Diablo than here; most of the crafting is purely optional in F4, while you pretty much have to farm mats in games like Diablo.

Most importantly, the game has a very different feel than an ARPG like Diablo or Marvel Heroes or Grim Dawn (all great games). Your character is very distinct, and hugely customizable. Your game experience can be very much a kill/loot/repeat cycle, or it can be something else. You can’t avoid combat, but you can minimize it. You can do stealth, you can game the conversation systems, you can do all sorts of odd emergent things that simply aren’t possible in most tightly constrained ARPGs.

Finally, I’m not sure the phenomenon you point out is that new, really. Hell, for all of the focus on story, and world building, and characters, what drove me in an Ultima game was…gaining power, levels, and stuff, so I could kill bigger things to gain more power, levels, and stuff. That’s what drove PnP D&D, for many of us. Sure, there were the people (some of my friends even now are like this, and we’re, well, old) who played combat-less role-playing, or role-playing where it was all about crafting an interactive story, but most of us wanted the loot. +5 Vorpal Sword, baby!

Kill loot kill loot kill loot.

Don’t worry I know you’ve got an axe to grind.

Hey at least you can see kill loot arpg aspect which has been in all the Fallouts. The other guy is a tinny short.

The casual thing isn’t the rpg kill loot trope, it’s the base building and settler dress up. It genuinely strikes me as odd and I think seeing it in a triple A rpg is an indication that things have changed.

To a large extent our tastes are defined by what is offered to us, and what’s being offered has changed.

I don’t know about you, but my taste is what decides whether I like or dislike a thing. It is not defined by a thing. My taste can change, but not necessarily because what I’m offered has changed. My taste defines itself, for various reasons.

Did anyone else make a bar out of Logan? Great setup for one. Just lug some beer and whiskey in from elsewhere and set it up. I’m thinking of having all my companions go there and wait for me in some kind of timeless limbo bar where they all hang out. Unfortunately half the companions can’t sit. :)

I see where you’re going. Not sure I 100% agree, but certainly there is something to the idea of a sort of convergence of hardcore and casual games. Well, at least for games that need to sell, which means anything with a AAA budget. There are scads of hardcore, non-casual games on Steam, along with the bajillion casual offerings, and they’re usually indies. As gaming matured, and mainstreamed itself, it changed from a niche hobby into something much more widespread, with the expected broadening of its focus. I’m not sure I’d call crafting and base building and settler dress up casual, though. Diablo 2 back in the day had dressing up your little battle.net avatar (your D2 character) as a big deal, for instance, and TF2 has been selling hats of all things for ages. But I can definitely see how these sorts of things have become normal in otherwise hardcore games, and it’s no longer weird to have people obsess over or even spend money on stuff like different combat harnesses or better looking helmets and boots. But hey, MMOs did this ages ago; half the fun of raiding was getting flaming swords and spiked shoulder plates.

As to your final point, it cuts both ways I"d argue. Yes, what we’re offered helps define our tastes, but in a market our tastes also inform what is offered to us. It’s a two-way thing, and that’s what has always made, say, analysis of advertising difficulty. We never know exactly what is the mirror.

It isn’t. It is the same gameplay you’re used to if you’ve played any of bethesda’s games.

Only now it has a slightly improved loot system (that is nowhere near as good as games like diablo, much less borderlands) and decent weapon customization.

of course that is there, that’s in practically every rpg, not just action rpg’s. No need to state the obvious. And that’s no Diablo inspiration.

The casual thing isn’t the rpg kill loot trope, it’s the base building and settler dress up. It genuinely strikes me as odd and I think seeing it in a triple A rpg is an indication that things have changed.

And how do you determine that this is “casual”? Base building has been a feature of games for RTS games almost since inception. What we are seeing is a mashup of genres. All Bethesda has done is take inspiration from a popular Fallout New Vegas mod called Real Time Settler, much like they took inspiration for the Weapon Mods mod from FONV. Casual games weren’t necessarily the source of this. Bethesda is good at taking inspiration from user mods.

To a large extent our tastes are defined by what is offered to us, and what’s being offered has changed.

Maybe. Or is Bethesda reponding to player wants/desires? Hard to say?