I think what would be even better is if Bethesda stepped up their game so none of us would have to get disappointed!

IMHO they could improve Fallout 4 a lot if they made it so that Radiant quests never sent you to the same place as any other quest. I never want to go to the same place twice. It would also be nice if spawning was turned off. There are only so many super mutants and raiders in the world. Realistically, Boston would stink to high heaven with all the rotting corpses everywhere.

Well, seemingly a lot of people enjoy their games, since they keep purchasing them. I’d rather not Bethesda give up on the massive worlds in order to spend more time on the main quest. Its simply not the draw for me. Thankfully, other games do that, so I’m sure you’ll keep enjoying those. There is no reason every game should cater to a single specific type of gamer.

This is how it worked in Skyrim, isn’t it? You’d pick up a radiant quest from an innkeep or whoever, and it would roll an enemy and/or a gizmo to collect and pick a location it knew you hadn’t been to. I wonder why the changed it for Fallout 4?

There’s a yin/yang, zero-sum sort of thing to consider, too–the more you have great narrative and sculptured experiences, the less freedom you have. The very best games tend to do one and give the illusion of the other, but even the best I don’t think can create resources where there are none. F4’s problem with a lot of people is that its freedom isn’t that meaningful, and its narrative isn’t memorable. Whether that bothers you or not is where the dividing line seems to be. That, and there are legitimate differences over what “meaningful” and “memorable” mean to different people.

I mean, I love this thing, but it’s still very frustrating, say, when you can’t talk to a dude and avoid a fight when you have max Charisma and Luck and should be able to talk a leprechaun out of his green suit. Or when the radiant Minuteman quests send you to a settlement that is worried about “nearby” raiders who turn out to be…lurking in a ruin entirely across the map and nowhere near the farm. Or the fact that companions who are written to eschew random violence can’t tell the difference between you offing some civilian unnecessarily, or putting down a raging mirelurk. Stuff like that feels sloppy, I agree. It doesn’t rise to the level of anything that stops my enjoyment of the game, in general, but I can see how it could.

But I still think that a lot of the problems result not so much from any incompetence on Bethesda’s part but rather from decisions they made–maybe good, maybe bad decisions–on what type of game they wanted to make. The main narrative’s biggest flaw IMO is that it’s neither really compelling or truly escapable. You have to do it, and it’s thoroughly mediocre. This, I think, was not a good decision on the developer’s part, but I also think that going in either direction–more memorable, more ignorable–would have changed the game dynamics in ways that perhaps Bethesda didn’t want to deal with. As it stands, it’s a tenuous balance between what you have to do and what you want to do, a balance that works for some and not for others.

But it’s a tough call, usually. For instance, I have no problems going to places multiple time, and no problem with the spawning. If there was no spawning, the game would have an end state of “you killed everyone.” That’s a very viable approach, but clearly not one that Bethesda has ever really embraced; their games are pretty much open-ended, and I kind of like that. I actually find it kind of cool to go back to a place I cleared out and find that a new band of raiders has moved in (and the loot has regened too). I much rather would have them fix it so that settlements asking for help ask you to clear out stuff near them, and that there was more narrative tie-in with these things, in stuff like having notes or logs or convos you overhear from the raiders discussing raiding Old Joe’s shack or whatever. It’s all a bit too generic, including the lame dialog.

But then, the whole Minuteman thing is sort of dismal, anyhow. Preston is a dork, and the idea of him turning over the leadership of the militia to some thawed-out popsicle is sort of weird.

Completed it today.

My ending was a bit of an anti-climax and was kinda forced on me.

The explosive shotgun I found quite early on and modding as I went was of a magnitude more powerful than some of the legendaries dropping off some 40+ stuff, and every enemy up to fancy named deathclaws, named BOS and endgame synths were blown to pieces in seconds so it wasn’t much of a challenge either.

I enjoyed getting to the endgame though.

You are acting as if it was a zero sum game. You can have a great massive world and well done main quest both in one game. Obsidian even did it on Bethesda’s own engine in mere 18 months.
And Chris Avellone left Obsidian. Maybe Bethesda should hire him.

As others have said upthread , no, I dont really think so. You do seem extremely unwilling to see that though, but you should be happy you have games like Witcher 3 to enjoy, and then leave the Bethesda games to those of us who enjoy it the way it is. After how many years now - 15? its unlikely they are going to change their approach. It doesnt help you at all that you keep coming into the thread to complain about how you want the games premise to change, and be more like the game YOU want it to be instead of the game it is, and that Bethesdas games more or less always have been. Its kinda like if I wanted more base building in Witcher 3, because State of decay does that and it should be possible to add to this game as well.
Oh, and for the record, I didnt enjoy the massive world of Witcher 3 that much, especially compared to a Betheda game. Perhaps they are different types of games?

Edit: I see you added in Obisidian - While I liked New Vegas, it was a very different experience from Bethesdas other games, like Skyrim. It felt smaller, and more focused on narrative experiences that isnt the main focus of the Bethesda games in normal, so I still don’t agree.

Of course TW and FO are different games, which is why I prefer comparing Bethesda’s games to Obsidian’s New Vegas. That is the same type of game, only better written and designed.
Ironically, Bethesda actually tried to go closer to Bioware/CDP style of storytelling with FO4, what with the voiced specific protagonist with set past and personality, but failed miserably at it.
You are acting as if I was somehow preventing you from enjoying the game by pointing out its flaws, which is ridiculous. I myself enjoyed the game, otherwise I wouldn’t have played it for 140 hours. But that does not mean I love everything about it. It saddens me that after 20 years of making these games with potentially unlimited budget (Skyrim sold 30+ million copies after all), Bethesda still can’t write a good main quest (you know MAIN quest, the one most people will actually experience).

One more thing why Fallout 4’s regression in all RPG aspects really stings - Fallout is my favourite franchise of all time. I grew up on Fallout 1 and 2. They were my first RPGs and to this day, they are the quintessential RPGs, classics of its genre. Fallout 3 was heavily flawed, but I liked its atmosphere and exploration (much like in FO4) and hoped Bethesda would nail the other aspects next time. Then New Vegas happened, which kinda blew my mind with how well it was written and how much choice it offered in everything. Plus its world was logically built, yay. So I had high hope Bethesda would get inspired from NV and try to take the best things from it for F4. And you know what ? They actually did improve some things by NV’s example. Followers have more dialogue and some even have quest now, yay! Too bad the dialogue is mostly “you are so awesome” and the quests are laughable fetch quests (Cait’s and Valentine’s in particular, ugh). But still, some improvements are present in F4. But then there are the regressions and all the fucking radiant fetch quests.

As I wrote above, Bethesda has good world builders and artists (although their characters do look lastgen). They have great sound guys and composers. They have great potential and I wish they would realize it by getting more (and importantly better) quest designers and writers. But hey, they just opened new Montreal subsidiary, maybe it will start happening.

I think we are speaking completely past each other - I think I make some points, that you ignore, and vice versa it seems. I’ll stop restating the same things I and others have said here, but end with a question of whether you have tried Elder Scrolls Online? They have focus on a main quest, and while I understand the game studio is another, the result is also completely different. They do TRY to make an interesting open world, but mostly they have nothing in way of exploration. I think that, while this is an MMO, the result will be the same if you try to take a Bethesda game, and put even more focus on a main quest.

As for the main quest being the one most people do? Well, in Fallout 4, 23 percent has the achievement “Prepared for the Future”, and 27 percent has the achievement “Dragonslayer”, which is the main quest in Skyrim. Of course, you can argue that thats because they suck, but I think its because people just don’t care about the main quests in these games ;-)

If I understand it correctly, your main point was this:

I’d rather not Bethesda give up on the massive worlds in order to spend more time on the main quest.

And I just completely disagree that Bethesda would have to give up on their massive worlds (or on anything) in order to write good, varied, handcrafted multisolution quests (main or side) and characters. That’s it.

I don’t play MMOs precisely because from what I have seen of them, they rarely have the kind of writing and quest design I want in my games. No idea about ESO specifically. I did buy Secret World because plenty people told me it has amazing quests, but as that maybe true, I couldn’t take its MMO nature of dozens of people constantly running around ruining my immersion and experience (plus the terrible combat).

Those achievements are true, although most games have similar completion rate, it is what it is. 23% of 2.7 million people (on PC alone) is still quite a lot though.

Hey, I loved New Vegas, too, but there’s no way, in my book, that the gameworld there is anywhere near as interesting as the world in Fallout 4. The Commonwealth is, hands down, a more interesting, dynamic, and fun place to play than the Mojave, for me at least. I have, already, 186 hours or so into F4, and most of that is simply wandering around searching, killing, and looting through the Commonwealth. I put 227 hours into NV, but that included twice through the DLC and a lot of restarts. Don’t get me wrong, I loved NV, and agree there were things in that game that are superior to stuff in F4, but I can’t in good conscience hold it up as some sort of paragon.

Now, if you could somehow blend the two, that would be awesome.

I avoided radiant quests like the plague in skyrim once I figured out what they were and no, they did send you to the same place. Early on, I talked to some innkeeper about work. He sent me to kill some bandits in a tower. Then much, much later I talked to him again and made the same request. He sent me to the exact same tower. I would be quite happy if radiant quests were eliminated entirely unless they were a mechanism to get you to somewhere you have never been. In other words, they would help you discover every location in the game, even the hidden ones.

i agree with the radiant quest suggestion. I don’t mind going to new places but cleaning raiders out the the Corvega factory for a second time has no appeal for me.

As for the no spawning thing, there are pros and cons. No respawning means travel becomes safe over time, which would become boring to many. Maybe a better idea would for each location that is cleared, you now have the choice of either the Minutemen or BoS sending troops and taking over if you are allied with either of them (I don’t see the Institute or Railroad as doing that sort of thing). Then those locations might come under attack and you might need to assist. This would make the world reflect more of your effort which is a complaint of many.

The main quest here is nothing like a game like The Witcher 3 or even the original Fallouts. That said, it is a major improvement over Fallout 3. The main quest in Fallout 3 gave you no choice of factions and was very very short. Could Bethesda improve more, yes. But they have done more this time around, with a longer main quest and different factions involved.

I think this is an excellent analysis of the pros/cons and issue involved.

Regarding this comment specifically:

but it’s still very frustrating, say, when you can’t talk to a dude and avoid a fight when you have max Charisma and Luck and should be able to talk a leprechaun out of his green suit.

One ofs biggest things missing from the perk chart is a speech perk. Rather having your conversation success and options determined by charisma, I wish it was a combination of charisma and speech perks and that you had more options to talk your way out of combat. There are a few places where you can do this but not enough.

I enjoyed Fallout 4 way, way, way more than The Witcher 3, I thought it was a better game in every single aspect, from inventory management to crafting to narrative to the world they built to combat. I certainly hope Bethedsa sticks to this formula and doesn’t change it as people describe here. More Fallout, less Witcher, please. Kthnksbye.

To the people who really love the world in Fallout 4, if you could pick five or so locations or quests that really stood out to you as must-see, what would they be?

I recognize the game isn’t going for what I really want out of a Fallout game (multiple approaches to solving problems,) instead going for a more combat-heavy approach. And I can live with that. But so far, I’ve been really let down by the world itself and haven’t seen much so far that’s been particularly memorable in the same way that locations from F3 and NV were. Maybe I’ve just been hanging around in the wrong places?

One right off the top of my head?

A place.

Taking the vertibird to the Prydwen. It really was impressive.

In a similar vein, finishing up the first track-a-courser mission; where, if you take the top door instead of the elevator, you end up at the top of one of the tallest buildings in the Commonwealth. Your companion even makes a comment about it.