I love discussions of open world games, as they are my current primary gaming preference. The more open, the better for me.

I love Witcher 3 but I feel it is a very different style game than Skyrim or Fallout. Very story focused, even the side quests are often interesting stories, all clearly hand crafted.

As I said previously, I haven’t played F4 yet (played F:NV and F3, and lived in Skyrim for a LONG time.) But on the debate about main quest quality vs. open world exploration mode, I would hope they would max the open world exploration experience. I get it, you HAVE to have a main quest because that is the “game” that you can “win.” Me, I could not care less, as noted, I remember very little about the main story in Skyrim.

But if I owned Bethesda and could direct their development team, I’d have them focus on maxxing out the open world exploration experience. Fill the world with really interesting places and things to discover. Plant a ton of backstory items that the player can discover and discern what has happened. Have some that aren’t “quests” but lead you to more exploration and perhaps some fascinating location/action (for example, a hidden stash of something cool, or the bones of the failed mission from the backstory discoveries, a hostage, etc.) I want to find some out of the way weird/out of place looking piece of wood, that I can move and it leads to a tunnel that perhaps most people might miss; go into it, have it open into cave and looking at a wall see “help me!” scraped on that wall, go deeper into the cave and have something develop that leads to something else. Let me find an out of the way house, abandoned, signs of a man, a woman, a nursery, a book that I pick up and read that talks about a legend of a huge buried treasure under a weirdly shaped huge tree, and a picture of it. No quest that pops up and tells me where to go, etc. But then at sometime in my exploring, if I see that tree, I can investigate. And be surprised. Or horrified. Or amused.

Fill the world with things to discover that make the world feel alive. That make me feel like they would occur if I was there or not. Bandits robbing travelers on the roads or in their homes. Walking through a field, and off in the distance seeing someone fighting off a huge bear, getting close and seeing that his family is behind him, cowering in fear. There must be a million “situations” that could fill the world, things that would occur in a living, huge world. But I don’t want to see that same guy fighting of the bear and his family behind him 100 times. Or even 5 times. Or even twice.

Let me just wander far off the beaten path, work to get to a remote location, and find a sign warning of falling rocks next to the rocky mountain next to me. And then if I can find a way to make a rock-fall (shoot a loud gun in the air, climb the side of the mountain and find a rock that I can push over the side that creates a rock avalanche, etc.) let me discover that it opens up a previously unaccessible cave. And then find something very cool/funny/frightening/jaw dropping inside.

Make a radiant quest generator that generates truly interesting and varied quests. No “go to this spot and get my saddle and bring it back to me.” Surely one of these can generate interesting quests. You don’t have to have 20,000 completely different quests, but work hard to avoid the kind of mind numbing repetition people are talking about. For example, in a Fallout 4 world, it might be common that people would want a brave explorer to go out and find a missing relative. But surely there are numerous parameters you could use to vary these. Finding lost relatives is a legit need in this world, surely lots of people got separated from their son/daughter/husband/wife/best friend/etc. during the chaos. And as you try to find them, they could have been killed or died in some manner, have set up happily somewhere else and also wonder what happened to the person who is looking for them, be totally lost and in some abandoned house or cave trying to stay alive, be held prisoner or held hostage, have turned into a bad guy of some kind, etc. You just have no idea. My ideal would be that it wouldn’t turn so much into a “guided” quest as much be organic to the game. I.e. I don’t want to have the steps laid out for me. For example, a man tells you that he got separated from his wife a couple of years ago, they were trying to find some kind of civilization, were attacked by a some raiders, he told her to run while he tried to hold them off. He was successful but was unable to find her after that. She’s got bright red hair, is very tall, has a favorite hat that has a big blue feather in it. She had a sister in (whereever) and her mother used to live in (whereever.) That’s it. In your wanderings you keep an eye out for a woman that looks like that. If you ever find her, then there can be a lot of potential outcomes. You might even find someone else with her hat on you can question. Simple radiant quest, feels organic to the world, enough parameters to make each one a little different.

And on and on. I don’t need a main quest, I just want a huge living world that is filled with cool things to discover, one that interacts with me in very interesting ways.

I see where you’re coming from, and it makes sense. There are a few really cool places in the Commonwealth, though many are situational–tall buildings, for instance–rather than story-memorable. The sheer variety is memorable, for me–in nearly 200 hours I’m still finding places I’ve not been.
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Also, I’m the wrong person to ask–I rarely find any locations in any of these games by any developer particularly revelatory. I am easily amused, so most locations are cool and that does it for me :).

This does sound very cool, but it mostly seems impossible with our current technology level.

The only exception i can think of is space rangers and that has the advantage of being a 2d game set in space so randomly generating stuff isn’t THAT hard (compared to randomly generating a fantasy world in a first person game).

Is it really impossible?

The first part, just loading up the world with cool stuff to find and backstory items, etc. is certainly do-able, but it obviously takes time and effort.

As far as radiant quests being more diverse and more organic, I’d have to leave that to anyone here with hands on game development experience. I can draw it on a flow chart on the wall, with decision points/branch points in the logic of setting up the radiant quest in a certain “type” (e.g. find the person for me that I’m looking for) but I don’t know how challenging it would be to implement.

But my bottom line point is, if you’re gonna be the company that puts out the best open world exploration type games (vs. say the story telling open world of W3) and have weak main quests, then really focus on that open world.

It isn’t possible to have the radiant quests not suck from everything i’ve seen. To make them move beyond the obviously super fake and crappy to something that FEELS real and natural. I personally see Radiant Quests as another Radiant AI, a failure.

This is a case of steak in the matrix vs protein goo in real life.

Maybe if they had some sort of faction wars setup going where the factions actually fought at a strategic level? But then a game like that isn’t typically big on exploration or finding side adventures.

Didn’t one of the STALKERs do some of that? I never had any idea what was going on.

Skyrim had a nice mod where you would find the two sides in the civil war in battles with each other randomly across the world. Which was oddly missing in the vanilla game. It was a nice touch that made the world and the war feel more real, plus you could join and help the side you preferred.

They tried with limited success. There’s a Clear Sky mod called The Faction War that attempts to flesh it out. It’s cool but a little mechanical.

I’ll never forget a quote from the developers of Falcon 4.0 where they said building the simulation was the easy part, and building the dynamic campaign was the hard part. I don’t think Bethesda is crazy or aggressive enough to make something truly dynamic like that. Not their thing.

Yeah, it’s not like people don’t like things that suck.

:-)

has brain aneurysm

I’m experiencing Witcher 2 paralysis (now 6 months and counting) which is stopping me from installing Witcher 3, so I succumbed to the first paltry sale that Fallout 4 had over the holidays.

Agree with the majority opinion, great game but missing some vital Fallout elements (choice and consequence, dialogue options, RPG stats.) Also agree that the urgency of the main quest is terribly out of place, and it’s made worse by the fully voiced protagonist.

-Why yes, I would like to barter.
(one minute later)
-MY SON SHAUNNNN, HAVE YOU SEEN HIM?

Romance options with companions a couple of days after seeing your spouse get shot in the head? Hmm.

Any word when the GECK might be released?

Well, it’s not “a couple of days,” but it is subjectively very very recent, so I’ll grant you that fer sure. Dunno about “RPG stats,” though. It has a different stat type system, but you do have “stats” as it were.

I’ve gotten far enough that I know the actual elapsed time, but yeah, it’s cold. In my head the protag was stuck in the vault for months trying to fix a gate that wouldn’t open, subsisting on radroaches and anger.

As for the stats, guess I really liked the old skills and mostly static attribute system, sad to see it streamlined. You can’t make an idiot savant who’s good at hacking, for instance (although all my characters end up turning diplo-snipers…)

I remember some people praising the fact that you can have polyamorous relationships in this game.

Then I played the game.

Lol

Yeah, one flaw, if it’s the sort of thing that bugs you, is definitely that characters I think tend towards a norm, because there is no reason really you can’t do pretty much some of everything, well enough to succeed, if you play long enough.

You must not be playing Fallout 4 then. Idiot Savant is set of perks at level 5 Luck and Hacking a set of perks at level 4 Intelligence. What is preventing you from picking both?

Duh, they like you, that doesn’t mean you have to like them back and flirt with them, right? If your guilt/sadness about your wife’s death is so bad, there’s nothing that says you have to have a romantic relationship with anyone. You can actually, you know, role play :) The option is there for those of us who are more cold hearted :)

Geez, just because the game gives you an option, doesn’t mean you have to exercise it.

You’re not an idiot in fallout unless your intelligence is 1 or 2.

(Well actually I’m not sure what the threshold is, but it’s not 4.)

My friend has extremely high int and just reloads whenever she finishes a quest and doesnt proc idiot savant. Pretty save scummy even by my standards, but then it also gave her a huge level advantage over me with 1-2 int and idiot savant.

That wasn’t your original argument.

It’s either an oversight, lazy design or most likely, a case of screw it, we got deadlines, let’s not think about the dead wife. Unless you think they sat down and designed 7 romances specifically for a cold, heartless protag, which as written, he/she is not (if you activate the capsule in memory, your character switches to grief mode)

Eh, I think my point was quite clear. The new streamlined system offers far less flexibility than the old, and with it goes some of the ways to define your character in fine detail. I’ve never played an idiot savant hacker, mind you, but if I wanted to, having to give him an int of 4 wouldn’t fit with the character idea.