Fallout 4

[Lynch]

My friend has extremely high int and just reloads whenever she finishes a quest and doesnt proc idiot savant. Pretty save scummy even by my standards, but then it also gave her a huge level advantage over me with 1-2 int and idiot savant.

I really don’t get this behavior. I’m at Level 31 now and feeling OP already. There is no fun in being OP.

[kedaha]

That wasn’t your original argument.

He said you can’t make an idiot savant character, not that you can’t get idiot savant perk with hacking skills (and indeed, the idiot savant perk has nothing to do with being an actual idiot savant).

You mistook his original argument and then mistook his reply too.

[Grifman]

It’s either an oversight, lazy design or most likely, a case of screw it, we got deadlines, let’s not think about the dead wife. Unless you think they sat down and designed 7 romances specifically for a cold, heartless protag, which as written, he/she is not (if you activate the capsule in memory, your character switches to grief mode)

No, they have to give that option to those that don’t care, right? Otherwise they lock them out of “choice”, which seems to be the mantra around here. Damned if they do, damned if they don’t. Here they give a choice and you knock them for it :)

Eh, I think my point was quite clear. The new streamlined system offers far less flexibility than the old, and with it goes some of the ways to define your character in fine detail. I’ve never played an idiot savant hacker, mind you, but if I wanted to, having to give him an int of 4 wouldn’t fit with the character idea.

Your point was clear, your example has nothing to do with streamlining skills and perks. They could have let you have a character with an intelligence of 1 play out exactly like the original Fallout (stupid, slow responses) without changing the current perk system whatsoever.

[Grifman]

He said you can’t make an idiot savant character, not that you can’t get idiot savant perk with hacking skills (and indeed, the idiot savant perk has nothing to do with being an actual idiot savant).

You mistook his original argument and then mistook his reply too.

See my response above - his example has nothing to do with his argument.

[AntediluvianArk]

I think I might be done with Fallout 4 at this point, but for different reasons than most people here. I really enjoyed the game and my time with it and played it like a Far Cry 2/STALKER experience which I think is how it shines. However I have very limited and unpredictable time for games and Fallout 4 is just so big, almost too big for the time I have. It is so dense with content and that sort of argues for longer play sessions; not the random hour here, hour there that I have. The last few sessions I was frozen with indecision since I have so many quests to pursue, open world to explore, settlements to build, etc. I think I might shelve it for a while to play many of the other games I picked up last year (or years) and haven’t touched yet. I’m more in the mood to sample a lot of more contained titles or discrete focused experiences. Played a little of Zombie Army Trilogy and Warhammer Vermintide the other day and had a blast with both.

I still think Fallout 4 is a great game, but becoming far too big for someone like me that doesn’t have a lot of gaming time.

-Todd

[kedaha]

See my response above - his example has nothing to do with his argument.

You mistook his saying idiot savant for meaning the idiot savant perk (which actually has nothing to do with the concept of idiot savant), and then refused to accept that two times. I’m not sure what your response has to do with that other than confirming once again your refusal to admit a minor mistake.

[ElGuapo]

Home run!

http://i.imgur.com/IKLaeGQ.gifv

What perk is this?

[RichVR]

Big Leagues. I think.

[Grifman]

You mistook his saying idiot savant for meaning the idiot savant perk (which actually has nothing to do with the concept of idiot savant), and then refused to accept that two times. I’m not sure what your response has to do with that other than confirming once again your refusal to admit a minor mistake.

Because it’s irrelevant. That still doesn’t change my point, but if it makes you happy, I misunderstood him. But it’s irrelevant. The other poster was arguing that the perk system kept him from playing as an idiot savant. That is not correct. The inability to play as an idiot savant has nothing to do with the perk system. They could have allowed you to play as an idoit savant with current perk system by allowing the dialogue to reflect it. I’m not sure what your response has to do with it except for demonstrating you do not understanding his original argument

[Major_Malphunktion]

That is the 2076 World Series Bat. When you ‘hit one to the fences’ you even get a cheering crowd. Only melee weapon I use.

[TimJames]

That delayed reaction on the swing.

[soondifferent]

Because it’s irrelevant. That still doesn’t change my point, but if it makes you happy, I misunderstood him. But it’s irrelevant. The other poster was arguing that the perk system kept him from playing as an idiot savant. That is not correct. The inability to play as an idiot savant has nothing to do with the perk system. They could have allowed you to play as an idoit savant with current perk system by allowing the dialogue to reflect it. I’m not sure what your response has to do with it except for demonstrating you do not understanding his original argument

If you reread my initial argument, I’m bemoaning the loss of the skill system. I can’t have a low int character with high science skills, nevermind the idiot savant perk (I used it as an example as it seems a sad acknowledgement of an iconic Fallout feature.) Want to do stuff with robots? Better have 8 int then. I can’t have a old-timey gunslinger who’s got no use for them lazer-plasma-whatchacallits. I can’t build a rugged outdoorsman who’s at home in the wastes. To me, these additional little stats reinforces that you’re playing the same character in game as in your head, and enhances role-playing. It doesn’t ruin my enjoyment of Fallout 4, but I miss it.

I wonder which came first, the decision to remove skills, or the decision to remove attribute/skills-dependent dialogue.

[TheWombat]

If you reread my initial argument, I’m bemoaning the loss of the skill system. I can’t have a low int character with high science skills, nevermind the idiot savant perk (I used it as an example as it seems a sad acknowledgement of an iconic Fallout feature.) Want to do stuff with robots? Better have 8 int then. I can’t have a old-timey gunslinger who’s got no use for them lazer-plasma-whatchacallits. I can’t build a rugged outdoorsman who’s at home in the wastes. To me, these additional little stats reinforces that you’re playing the same character in game as in your head, and enhances role-playing. It doesn’t ruin my enjoyment of Fallout 4, but I miss it.

I wonder which came first, the decision to remove skills, or the decision to remove attribute/skills-dependent dialogue.

You raise a good point, I think. In previous Fallouts, there was a clear delineation between, say, gunpowder weapons and energy weapons, and even between “cowboy” type weapons and new-fangled military arms. While it never was that big a deal for me, I can definitely see how it helped players construct characters where were spot-on for certain roles, like the Clint Eastwood Man With No Name type who used revolvers and lever-action rifles, and tossed dynamite, but eschewed auto pistols and frag 'nades. You can still, sort of, do that, but you have to do a lot more of that in your head, as the game doesn’t really bolster that.

[Alistair]

Earlier this evening I was going through a period of finding this terrible, but then the BoS fast travel system came along and it seems like fun again. Still don’t know what I think overall.

[TheWombat]

I’m well into my third storyline run, trying to do the BoS, and finding lots of stuff I’ve never done or seen before. I don’t know if I can actually stomach going through with the whole BoS line–Elder Maxton is a DOUCHE with a capital D–but there’s a ton of stuff in this game, so much that for me, I don’t care much that it has flaws as a pure Fallout game (whatever that might be).

[Rock8man]

I think I might be done with Fallout 4 at this point, but for different reasons than most people here. I really enjoyed the game and my time with it and played it like a Far Cry 2/STALKER experience which I think is how it shines. However I have very limited and unpredictable time for games and Fallout 4 is just so big, almost too big for the time I have. It is so dense with content and that sort of argues for longer play sessions; not the random hour here, hour there that I have. The last few sessions I was frozen with indecision since I have so many quests to pursue, open world to explore, settlements to build, etc. I think I might shelve it for a while to play many of the other games I picked up last year (or years) and haven’t touched yet. I’m more in the mood to sample a lot of more contained titles or discrete focused experiences. Played a little of Zombie Army Trilogy and Warhammer Vermintide the other day and had a blast with both.

I still think Fallout 4 is a great game, but becoming far too big for someone like me that doesn’t have a lot of gaming time.

-Todd

I discontinued for a similar reason. I also think it’s the second coming of Far Cry 2. But after living my life for 6 months with only one major entertainment: The world of Witcher 3, I just wasn’t ready for that kind of long term commitment to any game again yet. Maybe not for a long time. What I did play, I had a great time. Enough to put it on hold at a high point and move onto other games. Besides, with a massive sandbox like this, it’s not like I even feel obligated to keep going and experience it one go.

[Strollen]

If you reread my initial argument, I’m bemoaning the loss of the skill system. I can’t have a low int character with high science skills, nevermind the idiot savant perk (I used it as an example as it seems a sad acknowledgement of an iconic Fallout feature.) Want to do stuff with robots? Better have 8 int then. I can’t have a old-timey gunslinger who’s got no use for them lazer-plasma-whatchacallits. I can’t build a rugged outdoorsman who’s at home in the wastes. To me, these additional little stats reinforces that you’re playing the same character in game as in your head, and enhances role-playing. It doesn’t ruin my enjoyment of Fallout 4, but I miss it.

I wonder which came first, the decision to remove skills, or the decision to remove attribute/skills-dependent dialogue.

I guess this falls into the different strokes category. I think that tying perks to stats was one my favorite changes to the character development system. I think it makes character development vastly more interesting and strategic. I always found it silly that my 2 charisma FO3 characters could have terrific speech skills. There were only handful times where the stats matter as opposed to skills in FO3 and NV. I think there is actually more case where you stats matter in FO4 than other games.

But fundamentally, why the hell should low intelligence character have high science skills? exactly how many great stupid scientists in the world are there?

I also don’t miss the differentiation between energy weapons and regular guns. It seems to me realistically the ability to accurate aim a laser rifle and is pretty much the same skill as being able to use a hunting rifle effectively. Good hand to eye coordination is helpful to picking pocket, open locks, and aim a rifle, (not so much some of the other skills.) From a gameplay perspective, in FO3, it always required spending 3-4 levels of dumping skills energy weapons, so I pretty much either picked either energy or guns at the start and stuck with it.

In FO4 you can still use laser weapons with lousy intelligence, you use have to be creative about buying and finding mods to enhance the weapon.

To me dropping the skill system is perfect of example how less can be better.

[soondifferent]

I guess this falls into the different strokes category. I think that tying perks to stats was one my favorite changes to the character development system. I think it makes character development vastly more interesting and strategic. I always found it silly that my 2 charisma FO3 characters could have terrific speech skills. There were only handful times where the stats matter as opposed to skills in FO3 and NV. I think there is actually more case where you stats matter in FO4 than other games.

But fundamentally, why the hell should low intelligence character have high science skills? exactly how many great stupid scientists in the world are there?

I also don’t miss the differentiation between energy weapons and regular guns. It seems to me realistically the ability to accurate aim a laser rifle and is pretty much the same skill as being able to use a hunting rifle effectively. Good hand to eye coordination is helpful to picking pocket, open locks, and aim a rifle, (not so much some of the other skills.) From a gameplay perspective, in FO3, it always required spending 3-4 levels of dumping skills energy weapons, so I pretty much either picked either energy or guns at the start and stuck with it.

In FO4 you can still use laser weapons with lousy intelligence, you use have to be creative about buying and finding mods to enhance the weapon.

To me dropping the skill system is perfect of example how less can be better.

Yeah, I do think it’s a preference thing. It’s not a bad system; it would work really well in a new fallout tactics, or a party based rpg. However there’s something to the descriptive power of detailed stats that’s always been associated with fallouts in my mind. Even less useful skills like outdoorsman gives flavor.

[Alistair]

I think the main quest is quite good so far. The writing and dialog are weak, but in terms of what happens, I like it…

I am also the Commonwealth’s worst detective. It took me about a week to follow the Railroad’s oh so complicated trail.

[TheWombat]

I think the main quest is quite good so far. The writing and dialog are weak, but in terms of what happens, I like it…

I am also the Commonwealth’s worst detective. It took me about a week to follow the Railroad’s oh so complicated trail.

It’s just that the trail is obscured by rubble half the time, and if you miss even one of the stops–even though you KNOW where it ends and you KNOW the code–you can’t open their sooper sekret door.

I think the main quest, having done it now like three times, is ok, but the mechanisms for handling the interplay between the factions is clunky. Sometimes you get a message that taking this or that quest will permanently ostracize you from one of the factions, but sometimes, you don’t–you only get told after you’ve taken the quest, and you have to reload a save if you want to ponder that decision. Stuff like that, and the basic lack of flexibility in the options–it’s pretty much if you do this, these guys have to die, horribly.