Fallout 76 - Multiplayer, online, BGS Austin


#1405

I guess there might be a couple of reasons. I don’t know for sure. Perhaps it’s a nod to the modding community. This engine is so, so old that it’s (comparatively) easy to do graphical mods with it, and the modding tools are pretty readily available, even without a Creation Kit or whatever.

But it may also be that something that you mentioned, like the interaction between the graphical “world” and the complex db and commands underneath could be a daunting problem to try to solve, and one that Bethesda seems uneager to try to tackle.


#1406

Bethesda’s teams have historically been tiny by AAA standards, and it’s been by choice rather than due to financial constrains. Not sure whether they believe there’s some maximum size on what an effective team can be, or whether they think there’s a maximum speed they can safely grow at. But either way, they don’t actually have the developer bandwidth for fully modernizing the engine, and even if they did their art teams are too small to be able to take advantage of a more modern engine.

And since their games keep on selling even with the lack of tech refreshes, they probably feel vindicated with that approach. But Telltale also thought they were doing fine despite not updating their engine, until suddently they weren’t. Let’s hope Fallout 76 acts as a wakeup call for Bethesda.


#1407

I suspect it’s as triggercut suggests; the database stuff rests on and is intertwined with the old engine, and doing it over modern-style would be like converting those old COBAL systems…


#1408

I’m totally with you, the GMG Black Friday deal is somewhat tempting, but wow the reviews are painful, and my IRL friend that I’m most likely to play with has already tried and stopped.


#1409

So many ups and downs. Downs include logging in only to find my camp gone, no icon, nada, and no indication whether it was attacked or just vanished. Rebuilt it, but none of my crafting benches were stored, leading me to believe either someone destroyed them (no message or note, of course, from the game) or the game simply ate them. Also, yes, I can definitely confirm that even in a “zone” building, if someone else enters it, the default mobs do respawn, often right on top of you. Yay.

OTOH, the ups are pretty cool too. Followed a side quest (a really cool one) and, upon entering a dark doorway, found myself face to face with two level 63 ferals. I was, um, 28 at the time. Lots of back pedaling and jumping down cliff sides (power armor frame at least, no falling damage) but it was rather a hoot. Lots and lots of cool stories to discover, many of which really do tap into West Virginia/Appalachia history and culture.


#1410

It’s down to $35 on Amazon now…


#1411

Kadath? When it hits 11.99 lemme know… that said I am still sleepy tempted now.


#1412

Yeah some really great moments like this, just wandering around and finding cool places and getting into trouble. My son and I just got overrun by feral ghouls (level 22-40+, we’re level 21) at the golf resort and we did the same; just running, shooting, yelling and all the while cars are blowing up and there’s fire and explosions and radiation burns and disease and broken bones!! It was chaos but the aftermath was amazing… just a line of ghoul bodies and burning vehicles along the golf course driveway. We took a snapshot to capture the memory forever! heh


#1413

I was wandering along a stretch of strip-mined hellishness, among ruined trains, when I came upon a building and some machinery. I heard a fight going on, lots of grunting and shooting that told me it was Mole Miners, but I assumed they were battling some ferals. I waited until the shooting stopped, then as I was moving in to loot the bodies, what did I see but the object of the miner’s affection…Mr. Deathclaw, still very much alive, charging right at me!

Luckily a few shotgun blasts to his pointy little head did the trick, but I had to go clean out my Civil War Union army uniform after that.


#1414

This is probably the likely reason, especially considering how engine bugs basically sit unaddressed until the modding community gets their debugging done and build SKSE, F4SE, and numerous individual DLL injected fixes.

e.g. Skyrim has a ton of crash fixes that I don’t even remember, which included a wholesale replacement of its in-game memory management, and other misc engine bugs (lipsync / some fps bugs) even made it into SkyrimSE which introduced its own engine bugs that all ended up refixed. FO4 has a few engine bugs, I recall one which resulted in super slow load times that was fixed by modders.


#1415

They purchased and built some extra studios and integrated them into BSG; I suppose they realized they cannot compete with 100 people team against Rockstars and CD Projekts of the world. Fallout 4, their lowest rated game in two decades and first time their game didn’t win most GOTYs was the evidence of that.

Sadly their first multistudio effort ended up even worse.


#1416

That would be a small dev team. I would imagine Rockstar has 300+ on RDR, especially towards the end.


#1417

Yes, that is what I wrote. CDP had 250 by the end of TW3 development and now has around 500 on cyberpunk. Rockstar actually had 1600 people on it:

As “Red Dead Redemption 2” wrapped up, it did so with a singular group not distinguished as Rockstar North or Rockstar Lincoln, but simply as Rockstar Games.

“Now we’re just one big group,” Nelson said. “It has allowed us to leverage the strength of locations, letting us hire the best people for each job from around the world.”

That decision didn’t come with some challenges. Chief among them, Nelson said, is keeping communication open between so mammoth a group of people. He said about 2,000 people worked on the game, 1,600 of which were developers.

Bethesda had around 100 on Skyrim and slightly more on Fallout 4.


#1418

Ok yeah, read your original post wrong. It’s amazing how big these efforts have grown. Supposedly Ubi shifts their teams around as games need them and has 2k or more when big games are wrapping up.

I remember when you could get a PC or PS2 game done with 30 people and $4 million.


#1419

Central/eastern europe has a bit of a budgetary advantage, although it is vastly harder to get the people skilled enough. For example, Kingdom Come was made by team of 20-110 people (70% of whom never worked on a game before) on 15 million budget - and it is 100+ hour open world RPG with full voiced dialogue, orchestral soundtrack, high quality visuals, 4 hours of cutscenes… and also took around 6 years to develop. The difference is in its lack of polish (especially at launch) and much worse quality of stuff like animations, facial mocap etc.

Witcher 3 cost 81 million, 240 people, 4 years, but around 50% of that budget was marketing, so without it, it would have been fairly “cheap” too considering its scope and detail. I wonder what was the budget of RDR2. GTAV was 265 million, RDR must have been at least twice that, possibly more.


#1420

Here is how to become immortal, fly and potentially do thousands of point of damage:

Something to do with the Strange in Numbers perk, being grouped, getting all mutations. And then you can grief the server to your heart’s content. Be warned until Bethesda fixes it.

image


#1421

So thats why Mutans are Not Allowed in some forums on the internet.


#1422

I’m sure it’s horribly annoying when it happens, but I have yet to see many players capable of that level of cooperation and planning, so I imagine it’s pretty rare. Still, needs to be fixed ASAP for sure.

I wish the quest markers were…more informative, too. Go to a door, quest marker on it. Go in the zone, turn around, now the quest marker is on the door heading out. The real quest objective is actually in the zone you are now in, but the game can’t really handle verticals I guess so if it’s above or below you–or maybe just anywhere in a zoned location–you don’t get any useful guidance from the marker until you are within spitting distance of what you are looking for. So awkward.

But, some of the side quests are amazingly cool. The Mistress of Mysteries is a great one, for instance.


#1423

Bethesda can’t write a main quest to save their lives (Far Harbour excepted), but their environmental and found log/letter/note based story telling is top notch.


#1424

Remember, this wasn’t actually made by the same guys who created Fallouts 3 and 4, it’s a separate team in Austin. They could have done better.