Yes, but there is a claim that Gray may have been trying to injure himself inside the van. Unsubstantiated, and the statement (from a prisoner in the same van) is sealed.
The whole thing is pretty weird.
Have you thought the causation might be the other way? There’s a point to be made that, in broad terms and as an statistic, poorer people lean Democrat (since they tend to defend benefits and a bigger, more socially engaged state) while wealth leans Republican (lower taxes, etc…). Therefore, it might be much more likely for an impoverished, major, city to vote a Democrat as a Major.
I don’t believe this myself, but I don’t either believe your correlation. Impoverishment has to do with a lot of factors, many not under the control of local (and sometimes even national) governments. Policies can only be as effective as the power the legislative is granted.
Timex
1563
Well… no… because Detroit and Baltimore weren’t the absolute wastelands that they are today, back in the 60’s.
But even if they were, it wouldn’t really matter… because the fact would remain that the Democratic governance of those cities has been a dismal failure… and there’s no way to say that it “hasn’t had time to work”, because it’s had half a century. Their policies have simply failed, in basically every single way.
Those cities’ governments are trash… They aren’t able to do what they are elected to do.
Alstein
1564
The main driver of government in the US is at the state and federal level, not local.
I don’t think even the best government could have saved Baltimore and Detroit. They were doomed once Reagan and Clinton finished the job on inner-city America
Timex
1565
But every city isn’t like that. Those cities have been horrifically mismanaged.
Honestly, the argument of “Local government’s can’t do anything!” is nonsensical anyway. Even if it were true, then what the hell…elect republicans to local government then. Because if you’re right, they can’t do anything bad… if you’re wrong, then they CAN do something, and those who have held power for three quarters of a century have simply failed to govern effectively.
Meh, Detroit is a terrible example. It’s a case of a boom-town in decline, saddled with legislated decisions and policies made back when the money was flowing freely. It is doubtful that a Republican mayor or administration could have done any better with a city where the largest employers have evaporated and the infrastructure must be maintained with a fraction of the previous tax revenue coming in.
It also fails to see that although the ruling party has been Democrats (in the city) for almost sixty years, the actual policies have swung both liberal and conservative inside that box. In majority-black municipalities, you kind of HAVE to run as a Democrat, regardless of how you might be perceived nationwide. Sort of like how you kinda have to run as a Republican in Texas or Arizona even if you’d be Hillary’s running mate anywhere else. Now don’t get me wrong: fiscally, Detroit’s administrations tend to run more towards the tax-and-spend side than the GOP’s don’t-tax-but-still-spend, but if you look at the actual policies, they aren’t too far in general from what you’d see in a (fairly rare) city run by the GOP.
Baltimore might be a better example in that it’s a city in a long, slow decline rather than Detroit’s precipitous fall.
Timex
1567
But Detroit was a cess pool long before the US automotive industry finally tanked. And it’s decline was largely the result ought the local government’s policies, which basically drove away any hope of investment in the city.
We can’t just pretend like the city’s mismanagement had nothing to do with the city’s decline.
What Tin Wisdom said.
No city could survive what happened to Detroit without absolutely visionary leadership. It’s so much more complex than “Democratic policies have failed.”
Now, I’ll absolutely grant that Detroit’s local government has been awful and riddled with corruption by turns, and sometimes concurrently, for decades. But blaming Democratic policies – and if you know anything about US government (which I know you do, Timex!), you know party platforms are a hell of a lot looser the more local the level – for Detroit’s fall is like blaming the backup quarterback for the Lions’ continued ineptitude. It’s a tiny drop in an ocean of factors.
Baltimore City is not without its accomplishments. For example they manage to combine the second highest per pupil spending in the nation:
with some of the lowest test scores in the nation:
http://www.mdreportcard.org/college_readiness/SAT/2014_SAT_30AAAA.pdf
Not every local government could manage that. That is something “special”.
It’s weird how Detroit was unavoidably doomed yet Oakland County next door is doing just fine. I wonder how that happened.
Timex
1571
If you don’t want to associate the policies of Detroit’s government with the national democratic platform, that’s fine, whatever… But the reality is that the democratic party in Detroit has held power for 75 years, and as presided over the complete destruction of that city. Those policies have failed.
And yet Mississippi, that bastion of poverty, has been voting red since the 60’s. So why is it so poor?
Ideologies are rarely the things that fail, whether Republican or Democrat. It’s more often than not the politicians, as they fail to adequately prepare for the future or are unable to pivot when needed (not even touching corruption or incompetency, which I think we can all agree touches politicians of every stripe). Inherent in the system is a flaw, as people will naturally vote for their immediate interests instead of looking at ten years down the line - a bird in the hand, so to speak. That means policies don’t get enough time or funding to work properly, or they get hamstrung by so much compromise in order to pass that they’re doomed to fail, because the politicians have to worry about staying in office long enough to carry them to fruition in the first place. When industries collape, it’s a generational kind of shift that has to be made. People want what’s best for their kids, but when it’s a choice between feeding them and putting a roof over their heads or giving them a better education and job skills, people tend to vote with their stomachs.
Scuzz
1573
The Watts riot took place in the mid-60’s if I remember right. Cleveland had race riots spurred by economic conditions in the 60’s. Large cities in America have had their 'economically impacted" areas long before Clinton and Reagan. Washington DC and Baltimore had some terribly poor areas in the 80’s when I first went there, and I drove thru them by accident.
Trick question? As the enemy. In other words, exactly as they did before any of the current events occurred.
The relevant color is not black, white, yellow or brown. It’s blue.
Timex - to what issues are you trying to say it’s all the Democrats fault here? Police Brutality, Economic Decline, Other suckiness? What?
There was an unbroken string of democratic governors from reconstruction until 1992.
Aleck
1577
Although Southern Democrats of that era have less in common with their northern compatriots than they did with Republicans, as evidenced by the wholesale conversion of those former Democrats to Republicans. It’s tough to make the kind of blanket statements Dan, you, and Timex made in large part because the parties have changed so much over time.
That said, I think Timex is right that political stagnation – meaning one-party power – is almost always a bad thing, as both parties have more than their fair share of corrupt leaders who are drawn to such situations.
Haha, you’re serious, aren’t you?
Do we need to talk about white flight and the ensuing disinvestment in inner cities in the last century? I mean, I thought we all had at least a ninth-grade or so level of understanding of American history here, but I guess we can go over the remedial material if need be.
Yes, clearly we do. Why do you think disinvestment and white flight happened here and not in other places? High taxes, a government dependant criminal class, policies that didn’t work, government run schools that don’t work, and government incompetence and corruption at all levels. All of this is obvious, but the left seems not to understand the “remedial material” and keeps voting in people with the same failed policies over and over again. Baltimore was only prevented from falling to Detroit levels because of the port. Washington DC was saved only by federal intervention.
ShivaX
1580
I don’t think it has anything to do with “Democrats” in particular and more to do with “any party”. Any group that remains in power for that amount of time is going to fall into cronyism and corruption, especially if they know they’re going to get reelected. You can’t let a group basically pick their successors over and over again and expect them to remain clean. I’m also pretty sure this has little to do with police brutality against minorities.
Detroit is a strange thing to even bring up. Detroit was screwed once manufacturing left. As someone who’s hometown suffered a similar fate I can tell you the party in charge doesn’t matter much. Once you lose all your tax base and everyone becomes unemployed, lets see you keep things running like they did. It’s a death spiral with no real way out and the bigger the city is the harder it’s going to be to escape it and the longer it will last.
