Can you ellaborate on this part? I’m not a cop, so I don’t know what standard procedure is in that jurisdiction (or any other), but I don’t think his behavior was unreasonable for most of the video. The last few seconds before the shooting, when the driver starts the car and the cop reaches for the door, is when it all goes to hell. If you’re referring to that part, I’m not sure what standard procedure (if there is such a thing for such a case) is when a driver tries to bolt. I wouldn’t think that reaching in is a good idea, but I don’t think that doing so is crazy abuse of power, either (just ill-advised).
I think on careful review of the tape, both parties took a series of unfortunate actions that are, prior to those last few seconds, relatively minor on their own. That it turned into an unjustifiable death in a handful of seconds is the tragedy. My view on it remains unchanged: the main cause appears to me to be a panicked cop, probably with too little training for tense situations. This particular incident isn’t the greatest example of racial-profiling, abuse of power, police militarization, etc. Those things are issues, but that doesn’t mean every incident of an unjustifiable police shooting is a prime example of them.
Sometimes, an unjustifiable police shooting is a result of a cop that’s bad at being a cop, in the sense that he doesn’t have the abilities, skills, etc. necessary to perform that job. We see that all the time in other jobs, the result usually isn’t a tragic death, though.
Nesrie
1762
No i am not talking about when everything goes to hell. I’m not a cop, or have cops in my family or anything. I know a few firemen but am certainly no expert in law enforcement. My understanding is they can run that license plate and assuming it’s his car, which I don’t think the media has said it wasn’t, all those questions he asked the guy he would already know if he did. I am assuming if he ran the plates, he didn’t see anything that warranted concern because he was very calm as expected in the beginning. The video I saw, I think it’s the whole one, it doesn’t look like he ran the plates… I am assuming he had a link so he could. I can’t imagine anyone expecting to do traffic stops not having that link.
Timex
1763
In the beginning of the video, the questions he is asking the guy in the car suggest that he actually did run the plates, and it came back as being registered to a woman.
I rewatched the video to confirm what Timex mentioned. It’s pretty clear that he ran the plates (Cop: “Really? It came up as registered to a female” in response to the driver saying he was the owner).
I also noticed that the cop was pretty calm, even though the driver was rummaging around in his glove box (apparently that’s where the front plate was stored). I think it pretty clearly wasn’t a case of just hands in pockets leading to the shooting. The cop only gets out of routine stop mode after the driver gives him the run-around on whether he had his license or not. For example, he seemed completely fine with the driver’s clarification that the car was his wife’s.
Alstein
1765
Really good and long article on Darren Wilson- he sounds like one of the 80% I talk about (10% are saints, 10% are sinners, the other 80% just do their job)- but the 80% can be disasterous in a bad system.
There isn’t much in the way of a reliable record about Wilson’s own mode of communicating, except for a fifteen-second video that shows him arresting a twenty-nine-year-old white man named Michael Arman. That day, in October, 2013, Wilson was visiting Arman’s house to deliver a court summons. Arman had several broken-down vehicles parked on his property, in violation of city rules. In his police report, Wilson says that Arman refused to take the summons, and so he arrested him for “failure to comply.”
In the video, Wilson approaches the front porch of the house and notices that he is being videotaped. “If you want to take a picture of me one more time, I’m going to lock your ass up,” he says, in an almost bored tone.
“Sir, I’m not taking a picture, I’m recording this incident,” Arman says. “Do I not have the right—”
“No, you don’t,” Wilson says, inaccurately. The video ends. The encounter apparently did not escalate, but it is hardly a testament to Wilson’s communication skills.
Where do cops get the incorrect idea that filming them is grounds for arrest?
Alstein
1767
Pretty sure some states have passed laws against it (even if said laws are usually found unconstitutional)
Timex
1768
I don’t think they’re really under the impression that it is, but that doesn’t really mean they can’t SAY it is.
Yeah, it goes to rule #1: cops lie (legally, even).
I know some jurisdictions (getting rarer) still have it on the books, but shouldn’t a cop know if their area is one of these? I see news reports about this all time. It’s crazy.
What do these cops think will happen when they have body cameras on all the time?
ShivaX
1771
You can record police. The problem is they have guns, handcuffs and tasers and resisting them is a green light for them to use those things. So when they violate your rights your options are basically: let them violate your rights and destroy the evidence of them doing it. The penalty for them doing it is: basically nothing. Which is bullshit and a whole other topic.
It’s not helped by the demographics that law enforcement draws from for recruiting, either. It’s a tough job, with not that great pay, often a lot of danger, and always a lot of hassle. People are either really devoted to public service (few) or really into power trips (a lot more) if they make the choice to be a police officer, unless it’s a family sort of thing. But as a rule you aren’t going to find the best and the brightest joining the local constabulary from what I can tell from both anecdotal and other sources. There are always exceptions, but the psychology of people who want to be police officers seems to skew towards problem personalities, in terms of power and its use.
At least around here (SF Bay Area) it pays reasonably well, with good benefits. It’s definitely on the upper end of jobs that don’t require a bachelor’s (though some coursework is required).
San Jose is pretty representative: 78K-105K base, ability to overtime or do side jobs, good benefits. http://www.sjpd.org/JoinSJPDBlue/SalaryBenefits.html
Wow, then again, cost of living out there is sky-high comparatively I guess. Here it’s about half that to start, maybe 40-45k. Which isn’t bad come to think of it. Still, not a job one would focus on for the money for sure.
I imagine most cops earn every frickin’ penny too; seems like hard work indeed if done properly.
Agreed: I think a good cop earns every penny (and more). I don’t know how many phone it in or spend more time thinking about how they’ll rack up the OT and side jobs. Cops are generally union, so I think it’s pretty hard to boot a crappy one.
As to whether its a job that one would focus on for the money, I think that depends on what your options are. If you’re a guy who took a few community college courses but don’t have the inclination or aptitude for a STEM or business/finance career, it’s pretty much up there in terms of compensation for what you can do.
Nesrie
1776
I might not have seen the entire video then. The video i watched just had him stepping out of the vehicle and approaching the car. If there is one with him in the car, then I’ve not see the entire thing.
Nesrie
1777
I think we’re around 45-47k here too… which actually isn’t too bad for this area for a starting wage. Their benefits are super, super nice though compared to private industry here though.
The video I saw starts with the cop out of the car. So I think you’re watching the same one. Listen to the dialog.
CraigM
1779
Firefighters are a more dangerous job even, with higher risks of injury and death. Firefighters are generally better people too, far more concerned with serving public safety than police. Their stories are the opposite of what we hear about police recently.
Miramon
1780
In MA we have a lovely system in which the police do overtime for flagwaving at roadwork and similar construction sites. This can net them routinely over $100K and occasionally over $150K. A law was recently passed saying civilian employees of the contractor should wave flags except where an unsafe condition may exist. Oddly enough all roadwork is now considered to be unsafe. A civilian flagwaver will make only a tiny fraction of the cop’s salary.
