Fly the not-so-friendly skies

Again, you didn’t read the story because that’s what she asks! Also, two years old, the airlines force you to buy a seat. To tell her to put the child on her lap is not only against policy but safety protocols. And yes, you’re either going to listen to the attendant or get into a confrontation. She was afraid of the confrontation:

The Kapolei Middle School teacher said a man who was a standby passenger approached her and said her son was in his seat. She said she notified a flight attendant about the confusion but, “She shrugged and said the flight is full.”

Yeah, I’m not so sure that this case is glaringly a problem, since she didn’t speak up, or at least appears to not have done so with sufficient clarity. Lap child policy is up to 24 months. Her child is 27 months old. That’s not a huge difference. The stories have emphasized how small she is, but I don’t think all flight attendants should be able to spot the difference between 27 month olds and 24 months old. If they come down the aisle and someone has a child that roughly looks 24 months old on their lap, they’re going to just move on unless that person speaks up.

If you don’t speak up, it’s hard to say with certainty that this is a clear-cut collosal fuck up. Employees, in all companies, make minor mistakes all the time, including making certain assumptions. Speaking up is an important part of resolving issues. That sometimes means more than just saying “excuse me, I think there’s a problem here” once.

When you book a flight with a child, there are some questions about the minor’s age… they don’t have to guess. If they refunded the boarding pass, and they did, they have that information.

I’m not talking about booking, I’m talking about once you’re seated. For whatever reason, the child’s boarding pass wasn’t scanned. Whether that’s because she didn’t hand it over, handed over two stacked, or simply because the gate agent made an error in not scanning it (mistakes like that happen). Once that happened, the child’s age isn’t self-evident to the crew on the plane. Lap babies are not an infrequent thing.

This sounds like a case of a series of unfortunate events mixed with a few relatively minor mistakes that compounded. Again, stuff like that happens when dealing with businesses. It isn’t anywhere in the realm of the Dao thing.

She says it was. You’re choosing to believe the airlines. I’m not. The child’s information is in their system. If there is a concerns about a child’s safety, they shouldn’t be guessing. They have that information because she booked the flight. You’re acting like these airlines have no choice but to eyeball children which is simply not true. If there is a question, act like there are computers in the world and use them.

Look I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old and just came back from a flight and just booked two more flights. When 2 or older, you buy a ticket, which she did. When under 2, you get one boarding pass with small text “winf” of similar on it (with infant).

She’s in line at the gate holding her kid, and gives the gate attendant one boarding pass. It scans, the system accepts it, the attendant says “thank you”. Sure, the attendant should have cross checked that there is “winf” text on the pass. But the system would given the usual green light and soft confirmation tone. Move along, there are a hundred people in line behind her.

Then on the plane, it again looks like a typical mom with infant. Which you see a dozen times a day, every day of your career. The woman asks about an empty seat (which I’ve done) and the response is “sorry, the flight is full” (which is the response I’ve received).

It’s not a colossal fuckup. It’s a mistake that could have been fixed if she spoke up, but instead chose to put up with (at no major consequence and she got her refund). Hell, she was probably annoyed at having to buy a ticket in the first place, free under 2 is a huge savings for young families.

Gotta love the headlines - “United Steals Seat From Toddler, Forces Tiny Woman to Hold Huge Kid in Lap for Several Hours!”.

I think a key component of this case is the mother’s own admitted timidity. I can see how a flight attendant with limited information might tell the mother that the stacked guy gets the seat because the attendant assumed the child wasn’t over the infant age and the mother was just trying to take advantage of an empty seat. That said, I think the mother’s reluctance to make it an issue while on the plane is a direct result of the reputation airlines, especially United, has now.

@Nesrie is right that the attendant should’ve done more than assume, but the culture of “fuck this” and move on in the airline service industry has to be at an all-time high.

I’m not sure what you’re trying to argue here. Passengers miss flights all the time. People fly with lap babies all the time. The fact that a booked passenger (child or adult) doesn’t show up or that a passenger shows up with a small child on one ticket does not lead to the crew becoming auto-aware of every missing passenger. Computers are no better than the programs that they run and the users that use them.

There are certainly policy changes that the airline can make going forward (e.g., popping an alert if a parent and a seperately booked minor don’t check in together) to attempt to alieviate this, but the fact that a certain alignment of circumstances led to this problem for what may be the first time is not surprising. Unexpected errors occur in systems. They don’t all rise to the level of the clusterfuck that was the Dao thing.

No. This is not the point where the flight attendant should start questioning their actions. It’s when the mother notifies her that she purchased a boarding pass for her 2 year old’s seat, and the seat given to the standby passenger should be given back to him.

You’re acting like they weren’t notified of the mistake prior to the flight. They were. They didn’t give a shit; that’s the colossal fuck-up.

See above

That was really the vague part of the article though. She states that she didn’t complain or confront the attendant about it. I think it was fair for the attendant to assume that she’s just another mom asking about any available empty seats.

That seems “iffy” to you? What is she supposed to do, scream and shout? I’d think notifying is exactly that, letting them know about the mistake. They didn’t care.

You seem to think I am blaming the airline for making a mistake, but I am blaming them for not caring enough to actually address it when they find one.

The news article states that the passenger was approached by a flight attendant to check if her son was in the seat. That seems to indicate that at least one staff member noticed there was an issue with the boarding passes.

The woman also stayed she didn’t want to be too forceful because of United’s previous behaviour of physically dragging uppity passengers off the plane.

I don’t think that’s clear, at all. From the article, my assumption is one attendant walked by early in the boarding and said something to the effect of “is your son sitting in that seat or on your lap for the flight?”. The passenger answers “in the seat” and that attendant moves on. No boarding passes are checked. Later, the whole standby thing happens and the mom informs a different attendant of the “confusion”. No clue what she told the second attendent, exactly. That second attendant either misunderstands/assumes what “confusion” means (e.g., mom says “my son was going to sit here” and attendant says, “sorry, no, we’re booked”). Should that attendant have done more? Sure, but he/she didn’t, which is a mistake. Frankly, I can’t imagine how the first flight attendant who talked to the passenger before the standby guy came on would know about an issue with boarding passes. It’d be miraculous if they did.

In group working enviroments you can’t assume that their is some sort of communal knowledge. Different United employees did different things, with different knowledge.

Again, mistakes were made, but mistakes happen when the same event occurs thousands of times a day. That is human nature. Speaking up clearly is an important part of resolving errors, even if they are the errors of another party. Mistakes are very different than the willful decisions made in the Dao situation.

I’m in a managerial role (in admittedly a very different industry) and I’m not surprised that mistakes happen and that communication and knowledge isn’t perfect between team members. That again, is different than willful action.

Mission accomplished.

Yep, you’re right. Of course the only people who question United in this scenario are going to be people who have never worked in a group setting and know nothing about managing people… OR maybe the attitude needs to change here. Mistakes happen. Take a moment and address the concern. I’ve seen them hold up planes longer than that to re-arrange luggage. That child’s life was put in unnecessary danger because the flight attendant couldn’t be bothered to do more than make assumptions instead of, you know, ask a few questions, and the mother was terrified of being thrown of a flight because the dictatorship nature of the airlines doesn’t leave a lot room for questioning what they do.

Like.

In terms of perspective here, kids that are a day under 2 years old are ok to fly on their parents lap and not in the seat. This kid was 27 months old, so ‘life in danger’ is a bit much. Airline travel on the whole is among the safest activities in human existence (safer than taking a bath, safer than walking across the street). In nine of the past 13 years, the odds of being on a fatal flight within the USA were zero. Not one in a million, actually zero. The last fatal commercial flight in the US was the Asiana crash in 2013 that resulted in 3 fatalities. In that same 2013 there were 825 million passengers flown in the USA.

It’s their safety policy, and they didn’t follow it. I didn’t make it up. It’;s not just a crash that causes injury either.

But wait, there’s more! United thanked the newlywed couple for saving the entire plane from certain death by making them sleep on the floor, losing their luggage, and making them miss their honeymoon cruise.

I think the government should step in and dissolve United Airlines.

All the major US airlines should be put in receivership for endangering the public, and then liquidated for colluding against antitrust laws.

[quote=“Wallapuctus, post:480, topic:129243, full:true”]But wait, there’s more! United thanked the newlywed couple for saving the entire plane from certain death by making them sleep on the floor, losing their luggage, and making them miss their honeymoon cruise.
[/quote]

This bit is hilarious:

-Tom