I don’t think this is true.
There are folks who voted for Trump, who used to vote for Democrats.

The Democrats could just as easily run some kind of populist demagogue. Hell, a bunch of the populist bullshit that Trump pushes, like isolationist trade crap, is out of freaking Bernie’s playbook.

Competent leaders like those the Democrats have had in the recent past didn’t push that stuff, because it doesn’t work. But a Democrat could totally embrace that kind of crap on the campaign trail and win over a bunch of those same idiots who voted for Trump.

I certainly hope they don’t, and I hope folks wouldn’t support such a candidate… but I think there are plenty of idiots on the Democratic side who will tow the line for some guy on “their team” based on charisma and stuff, regardless of what they actually say.

The problem is that GOP voters basically tremble in barely repressed anger at even the thought at Democratic demagogues while happily playing ostrich with their own party, or even justifying their own abuse of power with a forward looking view of what Democrats might do.

In any other period of US history we’d be looking at the preliminary stages of CW 2.0, but we’re a consumeristic culture today and most people really don’t care how the country is run anymore. But I see Republican intransigence here a dangerously confrontational precedent which we will have to see how it plays out. IMO all the GOP cares about is force and as long as they have levers of power themselves to prevent force being used against them will not budge an inch willingly, no matter how flagrant the transgression.

I think ultimately a lot of people don’t really care that much about this kind of crime. They are bothered by the policy differences other people help them get angry about and more importantly the social differences at the core of those policy differences. They are focused on their own lives and their children and what any changes mean for those things. Many of them are convinced that climate change solutions are just excuses for redistribution and government overreach, intersectionality is a conspiracy against them, their husbands, and their sons, abortion is widespread mass murder, immigrants are stealing jobs and committing terrorist acts, and/or police are the true heroes. They also have core identity formed around eating red meat, owning guns, and playing to archaic stereotypes of women, men, and nonwhites. These things matter a great deal to them, and graft, abuses of power, and the break down of democracy is not that big a deal compared to taking action on these issues.

This sounds insane and incomprehensible, but let’s do a thought exercise (“no, let’s not! you all say”):

Imagine Hillary had won in 2016, but then for whatever reason she lost or didn’t run again in 2020. There was GOP president in the mold of George W. Bush, who won again in 2024. It’s now 2028, the vice president is too old to run, and we’ve got another open election going. Mitch McConnell has continued his abuses of Senate rules and rampant disregard for any fair play beyond what can be forced on him, and he’s been grooming Kevin McCarthy in this same style of “leadership”. Rather than take over the senate, though, McCarthy has decided to run for President. Full of optimism, we all get ready for another great nomination battle between the Buttigiegs and O’Roukes, Bookers and Harrises. In a comic farce of an operation, Kid Rock parlays his recent campaign of Facebook- and Tesla-funded climate change music videos into a comically mercenary and ill-prepared run for President as a Democrat. Blatantly taking money from any tech firm or green energy corp, he runs on essentially the Green New Deal, plus the idea of giving Washington over to a new generation, and a pledge to appoint pro-choice justices. He starts saying things you don’t think he really believes but that sound good for the Democratic base. He is not interested in social justice, doesn’t change his demeanor at all, is clearly in the pocket of special interests, and has no idea what to do on half the items on his platform, but he wins the nomination due to some funny songs and debate moments and a general sense that he “gets it” on important issues, even if the other ones are a disaster. Do you vote for him or hold your nose and vote for Kevin McCarthy? Once he’s been voted in, do you want him ousted for graft or working with Canadian Pharma companies to try to get reelected?

Not a perfect analogy in any sense, but try to think about the actual issues people are facing here and see how easy it is to think Trump should be impeached and removed. It’s not that easy and I’m honestly surprised it polls as well as it does.

Thus nothing.

IMO impeachment is worth it merely so that we can plant a flag to say that at this moment in history many Americans and their representatives understood what was going on with their elected leader.

If it was to doom the 2020 election, maybe I would feel otherwise, but I doubt it will. That’s gonna be a bar fight any way you slice it.

I don’t know. We’ve all known from the start that the chances of a conviction were very slim, but look at this cavalcade of horrific press for Trump. And that shit is sticking to Republicans as well, as they continue to go to more and more absurd lengths to defend him. It’s having an impact in the polls which could in turn have an impact in 2020 and I think you can boost that signal a bit if you can keep repeating that a majority of senators voted to convict. At the very least, it’s not a straight line party vote.

In any case, I think it’s something. When all the Democrats control is the House, it’s about the best I could have hoped for.

80% of politics is optics.

This is optics.

I never thought we’d get a conviction or removal. I’m just shocked at how easily and quickly the GOP lined up behind Trump. Nothing really matters to them, and nothing seems to matter to their red districts. The polls show all sorts of approval for impeachment, except in those places.

I remember when 9/11 was really going to bring America together, and we weren’t going to have this partisan sniping any more.

Nothing will solve this. People are power hungry douchebags. Everything I have ever heard in the past that will be the “turning point” to resolving this type of partisan bullshit hasn’t mattered in the slightest. All of the shit that is supposedly sticking to Trump and the Republicans? Americans will forget it six months after it wraps up.

Being blunt, these people are shameless, because they know the American people are fucking stupid.

So then maybe the solution lies in a better informed, better educated public. I have no idea how to accomplish that.

There’s a fundamental difference between tariffs to hurt a country and tariffs to finance better choices (like the EU banning stuff from the US). With Trump’s picks, there are no other alternatives.

There’s a reason the gop is against education for anything but worker bees.

The way I frame it to people is to ask “Imagine how bad the Democratic Party would have to get before you would consider voting Republican.” It is kind of an eye opener. Like I can’t even conceive of a series of events that would lead to me voting for a Republican.

I don’t know; at least in my anecdotal experience the last few years have managed to radicalize a whole bunch of middle age, middle class, and formerly chill people. Like I go out to get burgers with my retirement age uncle and his friends and the things coming out of their mouths are like, half a step away from Armando.

Lots and lots of Republican voters in labor camps.

Well, thirty years of progressively more left policies won’t hurt. I’ll take that, if we can get it. I don’t expect the right to go away, or for politics to be less divisive. It never has been less divisive, and all we really need is for the right to be in decline for some time.

Only 53% of GOP believe Trump is honest. 1-in-3 don’t feel proud about him. 4-in-10 say they’re not excited by him.

Not today’s Republicans. OTOH I can’t conceive of Democrats acting anything like Republicans.

ZADANIYE PARTII VSHOLNIM is what that works out to. So “something party something” ?

Is it something like “The party leads us forward” or “All hail the party!”?