4650

If you don’t include obstruction charges as clearly detailed in the Mueller report, doesn’t that buy into the Republican line that Trump was ‘totally exonerated’ and the Mueller report was a complete nothingburger? (A line Nunes and Jordan repeatedly, loudly, made during the recent hearings.)

4651

Yes, I completely agree. There’s absolutely no reason to exclude obstruction charges from the Mueller report, and every reason to do so. Let Republicans mount a defense of those actions in the Senate for all to see.

4652

I don’t know about nothingburger, but it does support the line that the Mueller findings were ultimately underwhelming. Which they were. Whelming, at best.

I think Democrats in swing districts would prefer not to relive the Mueller drama.

4653

Whelming or not, they pretty clearly laid out several cases of obstruction of justice.

4654

Yes, and so did Ken Starr. Americans weren’t interested back then, either.

4655

Lindsey Graham sure was!

4656

You might not know this, but Bill Clinton was impeached!

4657

Unlike you and me, Democrats representing swing districts are less interested in pwning Lindsey Graham than in keeping the support of moderates.

Yeah well hindsight is 20/20. Hopefully everyone involved learned their lesson.

4658

Moderates’ objection to adding clear cases of obstruction of justice to a list of impeachment charges, might be influenced by the very Republican disinformation I fear their exclusion would bolster.

I get what you’re saying, but it looks to me like another case of Republicans firing with both barrels while Democrats flinch at their shadows.

4659

Not really. Democrats are putting all their effort into the most serious charge they have, in order to avoid distractions. This is a sound strategy when used by prosecutors.

4660

Big difference between a stupid blowjob vs. selling us out to our mortal enemies. That’s why people weren’t interested back then.

4661

At jury panels I’ve been on, the strategy has generally seemed to be “throw the book at them and see what sticks.”

4662

I was a republican during those times and I remember thinking, awesome we got this dick - because he always came across as a scummy used car salesman to me. Totally phony. But, after having some time to think about it more objectively I though - what a waste of time. I didn’t want him to get impeached over that. Sure he is pretty scummy but not worth removing him from office over.

After a while I decided he seemed like he did a decent job as president, even if he was a bit scummy as a person. I’ve now voted democrat since GWBs second election and can’t imagine voting republican again.

4663

That is exactly the same route I took as well. I voted straight Republican until GWB’s second term. But I must credit my Grandma, who I thought was a die-hard Repub as well, for making me look at Bill a little differently. I too thought he was a scummy used car salesman, and fake as all get out, but she liked him a lot. For being a straight-laced goody two shoes, it shocked me she thought of him as she did and I too started to like him, though not enough to vote Democrat. Of course it took years for my eyes to be opened to what the Republican Party really was. “Compassionate Conservatism”. What a stupid fool I was.

4664

Ok, but Mueller is not going to testify that Trump sold us out to our mortal enemies. He specifically said that he has insufficient evidence to conclude that.

So if you want to put Trump on trial for selling us out, then you should probably leave Mueller out of it.

4665

If you want an interesting look at Bill, check out the stuff HST wrote about him.

4666

That’s not the point. It is true that Clinton should not have lied to Congress, the potential crime the current administration is obstructing (presumably) is vastly more serious.

Perhaps in the eyes of the law there isn’t a difference between someone trying to hide one vs the other is the same, you’d think there’s a difference in the court of public opinion.

Intelligence agencies concluded Russia interfered and the White House obstructed efforts to determine their involvement sounds a lot different than Clinton lying about a blowjob.

4667

The potential crime was never proven to be an actual crime. You might as well impeach Trump over Epstein’s death, which is even more serious.

4668

Dude, please. His findings were pretty damning. I would agree that the legal conclusion Mueller eventually decided was underwhelming, but that’s because he played the whole thing like a Boy Scout when the job should have gone to a Navy SEAL. But the report itself was a thorough document of a variously corrupt, inept, and deceitful administration. Don’t buy into the Republican narrative by dismissing it as underwhelming!

Certainly not anymore. Anyone who casts a vote for a Republican candidate for any position in federal government is a moron, a coward, or an asshole. Or some combination thereof. It’s simply not something any decent person would do. And I say this as someone who once flirted with being conservative, but never a Republican. I understood Republicans, I had respect for some of them, and I certainly felt they played a crucial part in our two-party system. But that’s all changed since 2016.

-Tom

4669

Sure, there was plenty of good evidence that his administration was corrupt. People went to jail. But the question was whether Trump himself was actively involved, or merely associated with corrupt people. And though it’s easy to imagine that someone like Trump could have been involved directly, imagination isn’t evidence.

I mean, I think OJ committed murder. But I also understand why he was acquitted.