Yeah, I’d bet good money Manchin is a vote to acquit, with appropriate mealy-mouthed statements about how it was all pretty bad but in the end not bad enough to overturn the will of the voters. Gotta keep his rabid WV base on board after all.
He could do worse than stick to the simple axiom of: “Let justice be done, though the heavens fall.”
This, right here, encapsulates the extent of the failure of the Dems to try to hold Trump accountable.
I agree. I think they need to include just about everything. Why not include the obstruction of justice? Why not include the emoulments excesses? Why not include evidence of collusion with Russia?
I’m sure they’re afraid of losing the House, but I can’t really grasp why they think voters in swing states won’t mind if they only impeach Trump a little bit instead of a lot.
I think a better answer is that they can do this now and continue investigating the other stuff to give them a better chance in 2020 and potentially impeach again on Mueller + real evidence from Ukraine (after it’s gone through the courts) after he wins
Papageno
4836
It’s like car or fire insurance: you hope you never need it (because I’m fervently hoping we’re not stuck with the current asshole for another term).
Guap
4837
Double Impeachment! Is that a thing?
RichVR
4838
Double Super Secret Impeachment.
Calelari
4839
KISS principle in action.
Papageno
4840
I tend to agree. The case for Abuse of Office (solicitation-of-bribery) and Obstruction of Congress is pretty cut and dried, and a lot less easy for the GOP and its media allies to spin as he said/she said. Despite a 99.9% probability of acquittal in the Senate, this shows non-full-MAGA voters how completely captured the Republicans have become. And in keeping it simple the House Dem majority is protected.
There will be a backlash if they bring up impeachment again for stuff that’s already been investigated. They may do it, but I don’t see it as a good strategy.
Something new going forward is different. But old stuff? Not a good idea.
Edit: I guess one of things that sort of annoys me is the Rs can just say batshit crazy things, refuse to vote on judges, just obstruct, obstruct, obstruct, and the Ds response is to try to be the adult in the room rather than bring in the flamethrower and dial it up to 11. It feels like it’s time for war now so bring it, Democrats!
I don’t see why they couldn’t continue to demand compliance with their subpoenas into the thing they aren’t putting in articles of impeachment (bribery), and then use any evidence of actual outright bribery they turn up to impeach again. All it would take is a couple people saying, “oh if we’d known this at the time…” Or they could pursue the subpoenas during the election while arguing that they had to move forward with impeachment to stop him from corrupting the election. Then any evidence turned up would be another clear sign that his acquittal was completely without merit. Particularly if not including the bribery charge leads to a lot of BS about how this would all be different if they had evidence of a “real crime” but since they don’t his abuse of power and obstruction of Congress don’t matter.
I agree, they should continue with the court battles to demand compliance with the subpoenas. Maybe even have the House hold contempt hearing on Barr and some of the worse offenders. Some of these guys should go jail in the next administration. The executive branch employees need to learn to fear Congress in the future, more than thinking of them as just annoying flies that mess up a picnic.
Oh don’t worry, they will… when the GOP retakes Congress in future.
Is there any evidence that this is why they’re holding off on those charges? Because all the reporting is that it is because Pelosi is angling for the set of charges the at-risk Dems are willing to vote for, and nothing more. That’s also why they’re planning a separate vote on each change, so that a few people can vote against one or the other.
The thing is, Dems who won in red districts last time are going to lose. Dems who won in purple districts last time and who vote for any impeachment charges at all are probably going to lose. I don’t blame Pelosi as much as I blame these representatives; she has to find the votes somehow. But the squeamish reps are screwing the pooch.
The case for obstruction of justice from the Mueller report is even more cut and dried, and obstruction of justice is an actual crime.
There is zero chance Dems will impeach Trump on the Mueller report, or impeach him again on Ukraine, if he wins the next election.
Here’s an example, Jeff Van Drew from NJ. He’s in a district that leans Republican (R+1). He will vote against both articles.
KevinC
4848
What a fucking traitor and a coward.
No, and I wasn’t trying to say this was the reason, only that it would be a better reason than they are giving.
Wait… Dems in red districts lose automatically, Dems in purple districts who vote for impeach are probably going to lose, so the Dems are screwing the pooch by… not voting for more impeachment articles?
