Nothing here?
Ok, I listened to a good bit of it, and surprise surprise, the defense team came off as intelligent, respectful, articulate and in my opinion mostly wrong.
They highlighted parts of the dems witness interviews that the dems did not show, trying to shore up Trumps policy against corruption. They also emphasized the lack of evidence and interpretation “mind reading” going on.
Most interesting to me, they said that the subpoenes were illegal because the subcommittee running the impeachment never got a vote from the full house giving them the power. They compared it to if a subcommittee in the Senate were holding and ruling on the trail, rather than the full senate.
I heard a news rebuttal that the dem committee did not legally need that vote because the rules had recently been changed. Will be interesting to see how that plays out.
Obviously Trump is guilty as hell and should go (for this any many many other things), but botched procedure has gotten more than one criminal off the hook and I’ll be PISSED if the dems botched this one like the defense is saying.
ShivaX
5978
He’s getting off because the Republicans openly said they’d already decided he would before this even started.
So it’s not a procedure thing, it’s that the “jury” walked in the room and yelled “innocent” before the opening statements.
I get and appreciate the q23 cynicism, but I think differently. Most Trump supporters aren’t stupid, they are uneducated, suffering from our crap educational system.
If they are shown damning, hard evidence, public opinion would sway, and the Senators would suddenly be thinking of their own seats. In that case, I think Trump support would evaporate faster than insert witty metaphor.
vyshka
5980
He fucking admitted he did it
yeah, asking for a favor is in the hard record, but not the reason why the Ukrainian funding was held up. So far, that has been based on “interpretation” by various folks, leaving wiggle room. As long as there is that wiggle room…
ShivaX
5982
So they’ve been shown hard evidence, but because they’re fucking stupid they don’t believe it they’re not stupid and will have their opinion swayed if shown hard evidence?
Also “hard evidence” here is literally Trump standing on a street corner screaming “I EXTORTED UKRAINE” which is not the standard for anything ever in the history of the world.
They’re stupid and literally nothing will change their opinion short of him coming to their house and shooting one of them. And even then, more than half of them would find a way to excuse him murdering their spouse.
Hard to be shown hard evidence if the video of the trial in in the corner of the screen muted, while a fox news talking head gets 80% of the real estate to talk about how great the great leader is.
I appreciate what you’re saying, but how the media covers this matters. This is especially true for fox news, given the people watching fox are the target audience you need to influence.
Look. I appreciate the frustration and I believe 100% that he is guilty. What this board seems to be missing though is why Trump was elected in the first place. It’s not because Americans are stupid. It’s because they don’t trust either party, and for good reason. Not arguing that they are equal, but yes, they can both be slippery as hell. They are politicians.
All the defense has to do is point the Dems testimony as slippery. Leaving out certain facts. That plays right into the mind-set and the Reps are safe continuing to support trump. Since we don’t have Trump on tape or written record with a quid pro quo (fucking hate that term), all of it is circumstantial and vulnerable to other interpretation.
That depends, most of the “defenses” have actually been misinformation, lies, disingenuous FUD or blatant smear attempts.
I don’t need to hear more of those arguments. Points such as ignoring subpoenas because they weren’t the entire house, interesting, but ultimately completely new and never actually argued before when it could have been relevant and not upheld by the facts of the obstruction.
Yes and no. Plenty of folks watching ABC, NBC etc. voted for him as well.
ShivaX
5987
They aren’t allowed to bring witnesses or evidence. Of course they’re leaving out facts, it’s a rigged trial.
That’s not the Dems being slippery. And then you say they’re “not stupid” when they ignore that? No, they’re stupid.
Again, because the evidence is being withheld by Trump. We have witnesses, but those also aren’t allowed.
Circumstantial evidence is used to send millions of people to prison every year. And there is no other interpretation, because Trump and his lackeys openly admitted it several times already.
If I have your blood at a crime scene, that’s circumstantial evidence. If I have your fingerprints on a murder weapon, also circumstantial evidence. If I have proof your car was at the scene of the crime, also circumstantial evidence. If you had reason to kill the victim, circumstantial evidence. If I have all those things, you’re likely going to prison.
I’ll add to this. Whether you think Americans are stupid or not, most agree that Mitch McConnell is not stupid. Just evil as fuck. He pulled one hell of a coup with the Supreme Court justice.
My take is he knows the hard evidence is there. He wants this to get tied up in court, knowing that by the time it is released, it will be after the election. If true, another rep will have to be nominated by the party. A gamble, but he’s a gambling man.
This is why the procedure of the dems is so important around the subpoena thing. Really interested to see how that plays out.
I’ll disagree with you on this point a last time. Sure some people are stupid, but I’d say many who voted for Trump are just as cynical and jaded (edit: let’s say frustrated instead) as you seem to be and that’s where their mind is. They just don’t trust politicians. Who knows what’s really going on.
All speculation on my part of course. One thing that did surprise me, I looked at the Fox News site to see how obnoxious the stories were. Sure enough, a number of the pieces were anti-dems, etc. Amazingly, comments are allowed! I started reading through some, you know, to get a laugh at how partizan and horribly jaded the other side is, and was totally surprised that there was a debate going on with both sides represented. Maybe it was a fluke, I’ll look again.
It did seem like even Fox News internet readers were getting a broader viewpoint than I had thought. Definitely more than here. Again, could have been a fluke thread.
edit: here’s one. Couldn’t be a more obnoxious article. Comments give me hope. Plenty of not stupid comments on both sides. https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/sen-marsha-blackburn-impeachment-trial-is-a-political-farce-no-more-witnesses-or-documents-are-needed
ShivaX
5990
Sure, but if they still support him? They’re stupid.
Enidigm
5991
The comments give you hope? I’m scrolling through the comments and i hardly see anything the typical comments section. I think you’re too sensitive to looking to “both sides” being represented, even if 90% of the rest of the comments you pass by as white noise are looniville near crazies.
Timex
5992
I think this is where you are mistaken.
A huge number of Americans are in fact stupid. Probably no more than any other country… But half of people are of below average intelligence.
When you look at the people in Trump rallies, those people are very clearly stupid. He says objectively stupid things, and they cheer. Even when presented with objective fact proving his statements to be lies, they make increasingly absurd rationalizations for why it doesn’t matter than he repeatedly lies to them.
Sorry, but a bunch of Americans are in fact stupid. You need to account for that when campaigning.
“No one in this world, so far as I know … has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people.” - H. L. Mencken
Timex
5993
You do, because that is the official defense bring given. Witnessing this for history is our duty as Americans.
In that case I’m gonna need whiskey
