SlyFrog
6035
Yes. Or that the thing they think becomes their core/identity, and contrary facts are not a challenge to what they think, they become a challenge to who they are/their identity.
There was a podcast I listened to a while ago that actually looked into some of the social science of this, and how peoples’ minds are changed (or not changed/changeable).
That was one of the key findings. Once someone believes something long enough/strongly enough that it becomes a “core thought”/part of their identity, it is nearly impossible to change their mind. They even just start to forget contrary facts, because psychologically, it is effectively an assault on who they are.
Let’s be blunt, I think everyone does it. You see it here, you see it everywhere. It is perfectly understandable from a logical perspective. Very few people want to effectively be “undone” with respect to their own identity. It is very uncomfortable to question the core of who you are and what you believe in, or consider that it might be wrong.
As you said, that’s why you get things like, “I just think . . .” Because the emphasis is on the “I.” This is who I am.
JoshL
6036
Sure, but this isn’t value neutral. Some people’s core identity is “White Christian men are the best kind of people and we should let neither laws nor social mores interfere with the project of amassing and retaining to them all economic and political power”, and other people’s core identity is “We should do our best, within our limited means, to try to ensure that all people have equal access to opportunity, and it wouldn’t be out of line to admit that a lot of people haven’t had that access in the past, so maybe those groups should get a leg-up to achieving equality.”
Yes, I agree that I am pretty comfortable in one of those groups, and it would be pretty much impossible to convince me to change to the other group. Maybe this is because I won’t listen to contrary facts, but maybe also it is because one of those groups is going to lead to another century of war, genocide, and social/technological regression (and climate catastrophe), and the other group will at least try not to.
And as a side note, only one of those groups outright rejects the scientific method, which is pretty much all about questioning your assumptions and changing your hypotheses when the facts don’t fit.
SlyFrog
6037
This is ridiculous. You’re demonizing the other with the way you phrase things. I mean, you’re kind of serving as an example of the issue.
This is the type of thing that isn’t helpful, any more than, “Some people’s core identity is to sit around being lazy, destroying the economy, cashing welfare checks and taking money from people who actually work hard for a living.”
Outside of an incredibly tiny pool of people, no one sits around twirling their mustache thinking that they’d love to fuck over the poor for no good reason, etc. It’s just a ridiculous caricature. And thinking that way really is part of intentionally blocking out any understanding or critical thinking, by reducing anything outside of your own thought bubble to a ridiculous caricature argument for the other side. Because again, then you don’t have to really think about it, or consider it, because they other side, they’re so crazy!
Hear hear. The standard should be “a preponderance of the evidence + basic common sense.” Trump is “guilty AF” by that standard.
And re your comment about the media’s responsibility: well yes, if the FCC these days would spend less time and resources protecting us from naughty words and more making sure that everything using the public airwaves had some regulated responsibility to inform the public.
Good grief!
The term you are looking for is willful ignorance.
It’s not stupid or uneducated, tho it can be both. Yes, the propaganda and hate makes the destructive nature feel better, but that’s the term you are looking for.
Yeah, a lot of anti-vaxxers have Bachelors’ and advanced degrees, but somehow “they just know” vaccines cause autism because some now-thoroughly-debunked bullshit got published in The Lancet one time, then Jenny McCarthy shouted about it for a decade, and who are you gonna believe, Big Vaccine or the pretty blonde lady? But they better not come crying to me if their kid gets whooping cough AND DIES.
Derail: Netflix just debuted Pandemic (documentary on infectious diseases) that featured some Oregon anti-vaxxers. Painful listening to them - and I don’t even have kids.
As Freud theorized, the two greatest drivers of human behavior are Eros and Thanatos. The latter makes us want to kill others, ourselves, the species for some reason.
It shouldn’t matter in the slightest, but Kobe Bryant died today in a helicopter crash, so brace yourselves for maximum distraction.
Speaking of ridiculous, it’s ridiculous to say that the people who object to e.g. putting kids in cages as a deterrent to prevent their parents from trying to migrate illegally do so because they have demonized the other and thereby blocked out any opportunity to understand the very cogent and convincing arguments of the kids-cagers.
I sometimes think you can’t have met very many people, or read much about the history of people. I mean, Hitler and Stalin and Pol Pot and Mao did not do their shit without help from one hell of a lot of bad people. A lot of people are bad.
Scott, I’m sorry, but I’m informed that you actually love Mao for sure and probably Stalin because LefT Of CenTER
Uh, no one’s posted this yet?
kerzain
6048
We were waiting for the book to get published.
Well, now we know why Bolton is eager to testify
Tim_N
6051
Does Trump even know John Bolton?
And also why the White House was so eager to block him from doing so. Presumably all of that manuscript was sent to the White House for classification clearance, so they’re quite well aware.
And this really undercuts the main point of the defense that was being made in the Senate on Saturday.
