Founding Fathers Forum Game: A republic, if you can keep it.

Sure, I just wanted to know whether to remove the influence from Washington’s card or from @Brooski’s faction pile.

I have to appoint people to all the offices, no? Before the term ends?

Vote no with 9 votes.

On to @Ironsight

Give women the right to vote?! Blasphemy. If God wanted women to vote he would have given them brains. 8 votes Nay Nay. 8 Yes and 17 No so far.

You’re up @Navaronegun

Given property restrictions on voting in all states, and the fact that the fair sex cannot own property, we think this is a marvelous step forward. It will allow propertied widow-women to vote; representing their properties, businesses, estates and other holdings on behalf of their underage male heirs, or until they remarry and their new husbands own it all.

Vote Yea with 6 votes, over to you, @Brooski

Ok, it says in the rules:

Right now, John Jay is Sec’y of State, John Quincy Adams is Treasurer, Alexander Hamilton is Special Envoy, and, um that’s it, right? So there needs to be a Sec’y of War, a General, and a Chief Justice.

Oops, hit post too soon. So, before the final issue is resolved, I appoint James Madison as Sec’y of War (+1 Pop.), Thomas Pinckney (@Panzeh) as General (+1 Pop.), and Benjamin Franklin (@Brooski) as Chief Justice.

then…

I vote YEA with 18 votes in favor of Women’s Suffrage.

@CF_Kane

As a side note, this seems out of place in the early deck…I don’t think there was a significant sufferage movement in the US until just before the civil war.

Agree. Even the intellectual foundations framing the issue in the United States weren’t published until the late 1830s/early 1840s.

Virtue signalling.

New Jersey allowed women who met the property qualification to vote until 1808. Kentucky passed the next women’s suffrage bill in 1837. In both cases, coverature meant voting was largely confined to widows and single women who were able to meet whatever property requirements existed at the time.

One could argue that Judith Sargent Murray’s On the Equality of the Sexes, published in 1790, provided a rationale for granting the vote to women, although she did not expressly campaign for suffrage. @spotlightgames, let me know if there is anything I missed that you were thinking of when you include the suffrage issue.

Judith Sargent Murray and Dolly Washington were present at the signing of the 1792 Naturalization Act, which in addition to allowing the naturalization of to immigrants who were free white persons of good character, provided that women would have the right to vote in major elections. Because all of the states had adopted some form of coverture, the only women who were able to vote were those who were both unmarried or widowed and those who possessed sufficient property to meet the requirements. Many of these women were conservative and supported a strong federal government, and thus supported the Federalist party in the early days of the United States.

(+1 Popularity Washington, -2 Influence Washington, +2 Party Support for Conservatives).

The Washington Presidency, 1789-1792

The Washington Presidency has been considered a great success. Washington was able to avoid a ruinous war with Britain, set American fiscal policy on a solid footing by assuming state debts and establishing a tariff, and reform the electoral process through a Constitutional amendment and through granting women the right to vote.

Although the public saw little difference between the Federalists and nascent Democratic Republicans, Washington himself was immensely popular. Of note during this period was the growing rivalry between John Adams, the Vice President, and John Quincy Adams, his politically precocious eldest son. John Adams, confined to the relatively limited role of the Vice Presidency, saw John Quincy Adams create a strong national profile from his office as Secretary of the Treasury.

The Democratic Republicans, meanwhile, saw a potentially brewing leadership conflict between James Madison, who took a job as Secretary of War in the Washington Administration, and Thomas Jefferson, who was a passionate advocate for war with the British and for support of the French.

The Treasury Phase

At the end of 1792, the United States had a modest surplus in the budget, which was used to pay down a part of the debt of the states that been assumed in 1791. Although some debt remained, the cost of servicing that debt was relatively minimal. America remained on strong economic footing going into the election of 1792.

(Reserves were at -25. Revenue at 10. Means reserves at the end of 1792 are at -15, and there is an additional -5 in interest on the debt, leaving Reserves at -20).

Indeed, as I alluded to in my “Adams statement”. Murray is not as salient or direct when it comes to the intellectual foundations of suffrage as Grimke or Fuller. The card is quite a stretch, pre-Civil War. A bit of Pollyanna, IMO. A more realistic event would be NJ’s banning of Suffrage rights for widows in the Early Republic.

The Election of 1792

The election of 1792 saw the first test of the new system for electing the President and Vice President, as well as the first contested election of the Republic.

There was no question that the Federalists would nominate George Washington (of Virginia) as their candidate. While there was some debate among the Democratic Republicans, a clear majority formed around Thomas Jefferson (also of Virginia).

@Brooski, @Panzeh, please pick your running mates (who must be of the same party). Note to players, you may decline the offer to act as a Vice Presidential Candidate.

In case you need it, a quick overview of the election rules:

In an election, the candidates claim states, and obtain their electoral votes. Each state can be claimed by only one candidate (Presidential or Vice-Presidential), and the totals for the Pres and VP candidate for each party are totaled for the resulting vote. Because there is a tie for popular support of the parties, the most popular Presidential candidate gets to claim a state first. As a result, states will be claimed in the following order:

  1. Washington
  2. Washington’s VP Candidate
  3. Jefferson
  4. Jefferson’s VP Candidate

The first cube placed is always in the Statesman’s home state (e.g. Virginia, for Washington). If a Presidential candidate cannot claim his home state, they must claim a state as close as possible to the home state. If a VP candidate cannot claim his home state, he must claim a state adjacent to that of his running mate. If there is no possible vacancy, the VP cannot place a cube.

After the first round of claims, each candidate must claim a state adjacent to one he has already claimed (Presidents cannot claim a state adjacent to only a VP cube and vice versa). If there are no adjacent states, the player may not claim a state. Play continues in this way until all states are claimed.

I agree that women’s suffrage was unlikely in the history of the early United States, especially given the collapse of the Federalist party after the Adams administration, who were the only party with the incentive to extend votes to women at the time. It also seems like an unlikely use of political capital by the founders, who certainly were not committed on the whole to the equality of the sexes. Just wanted to provide some context.

I will nominate my current Vice President, John Adams (@Navaronegun)

I will always serve you as directed, Mr President.

A quick update of the game state at the end of 1792:

1792%20Game%20State

There are currently no victory points scored, as no Statesman has died or resigned. Vote totals remain the same as last turn.

Here are the Statesmen, organized by age:

Washington is far and away the most popular, with 11 popularity (and 4 popularity cubes, which represent popularity gains over the initial amount, and translate into victory points). Adams, Jefferson, and JQA all tie for second with 5 popularity, although JQA leads in potential victory points, with 4 popularity cubes.

Ah, but the opposition actually has to declare first. So hang on, we wait for Mr. Jefferson (@Panzeh)