Do we? Who said that? edited to be less inflammatory. But seriously. I did not say that.
To be fair it’s “unorganized” religion that’s really the problem. Most of the overlap (at least today) with more intolerant forms of American Christianity are on the Evangelical side, and that’s because as an unorganized denomination there is no rigor in doctrine and “getting peoplr in the pews” rather than caring what they practice is what many use as a yardstick.
And don’t forget it can work both ways
Bringing this full circle back to Fox News:
Uh, dumbass - it’s mostly only EVANGELICAL Christians in America who piss off other Americans by trying to curtail other Americans’ freedoms. Most other branches actually follow Christ’s model of tolerance. Nobody would give a crap if you were Episcopalian, for example.
Oh, and if you support Trump as a Christian, you have no idea what it means to actually be a Christian (see the Doonesbury cartoon above), you’re just a massive hypocrite who sold his soul to try to kill abortion rights.
Yeah, we totally made up this and your next like 5 posts. Maybe make your points better and with less grandstanding if you don’t really mean it or mean something completely different (which every post other than this one playing the victim card didn’t do).
There is some truth to that as well. Catholicism has it issues, but at least it has actual scholars and theologians. Unlike most evangelicals that haven’t even read the Bible and don’t know anything about Jesus.
Ok. What I wrote doesn’t actually doesn’t say what you claim. But hey, fine. Its an internet forum. Shrug. Oh and “victim card” come off it.
Getting educated about every facet of a religion is fine, as long as you are not selective about it. Your knowledge of Islamic countries seem to be based on what you read in the news, and those idiotic polls that come out claiming, 80% of Pakistan, or some other Islamic country would like to chew on infidel bones.
Honor killings is unfortunately a cultural thing born out of ignorance primarily. It’s not a religious issue. Death penalty to adulterers is something not enforced at state level, in any Islamic country but Saudi Arabia. Perhaps Iran too, but I am not sure. Same goes for homo-sexuality. These rules will fade away in near future.
The tenets against gay relationships in Islam has the same foundations as those in other Abrahamic religions, based on tales of Sodom and Gomorrah (which are there in Quran too).
Oh it is? Interesting. Silly me. There was me thinking it was based on facts and a deep interest in furthering freedom, human rights and social justice. But no I am sure you are right I just picked it up from my daily diet of reading The Sun and watching Fox News.
To build on what Tom said, Jesus is not considered divine, or son of God in Islam, which gives absolute power and divinity to Allah (God), and no one else. However, Jesus has a very special place in Islam, unlike Judaism. He is called “Rooh-ul-llah” (rough translation, spirit/mercy/indication of Allah), and Muslims also believe that Jesus will return to this world one day and fight the ‘dajjal’ (false Messiah).
Moses is the most oft-mentioned prophet in Quran, and I think Jesus (Ibn-e-Mariam, son of Mary) is the second on the list.
“50+ new posts! Awesome! Hannity must’ve really gotten himself in trouble this time.”
[checks thread]
Sure, but there is an implied moral equivalency here which I profoundly disagree with. Its like during the cold war there was a common theme of some of us in the west equating the USA & the west with the USSR with “well both sides do awful things”. Which while just about true does not convey the massive gap in awfulness between the two. The USSR was one of the worst and most murderous regimes in history. So yeah if you compare extremists of both religions , sure they are both full of scumbags. But there is a measure of scale here that I dont think should be hand waved away. Islam has the worst most numerous, murderous and awful religious extremists in the world today. That really isnt a particularly controversial thing to point out. or shouldnt be at any rate.
I am not disputing your interests and inclinations, but your overall knowledge of other countries indeed seem to be based on what you read in the news, and nothing else. I doubt you have ever spent any time in an Islamic country, and I also doubt you know any Muslim personally.
excellent gif choice :)
Then you would be absolutely wrong. But hey, if thats easier for you than reading my post and considering , just considering, I may have a point then knock yourself out.
Coming soon to pay-per-view!
What’s interesting to me about that statement is that if Muslims don’t believe Jesus is the Messiah, then isn’t he almost the false Messiah himself? You can almost hear the wheels turning: “So this guy who isn’t the Messiah despite a lot of people thinking he is, will come back and fight another false Messiah? Is this a battle to determine the true false Messiah?”
From what i understand the Quran states that it isn’t Jesus that’s the problem but his followers. That the ‘message’ of Jesus was exactly the message of the Koran, but his followers got confused and made Jesus into a god instead. So the Quran recognizes Jesus as a prophet like Moses.
I don’t have the information in front of me but i have read an interesting analysis of the Quran that some western scholars think indicates knowledge of a particular version of Christianity in the northern Hijaz near Nabatea at the time.
As a historically minded person the environment for the composition of the Quran is super interesting, in this late-antique (as it was dubbed 30 or so years ago) world of hermits sitting on pillars (which begs the question, why are there pillars without roofs everywhere) to non-rabbinical, native Arabic Judaism which seems to have had a center somewhere in modern Yemen but which was driven out and scattered by an invasion of Ethiopian Christians (bwaa?) to the breakdown of trade as the remnant of the Roman Empire continued to dwindle and spin off into impoverishment, localization and decay.
The rise of Islam is told today of bringing “religion” to the desert dwellers - if anything the area in the Hijaz from whence it came was the last bastion of polytheism in a monotheistic sea, because of its isolation, impoverishment and harsh climate and peoples. And it’s rise is entirely one of the freak events of human history - pretty much on par with the Mongols, but with a religious revolution behind it to keep the fires burning. And even then it’s not entirely clear that what Islam “was” actually was what we think of it for a good 150-200 years. It’s a very interesting time.
I think it’s probably better to read the Quran to get an idea of what it says than to read some non-Muslim analyst’s summary of it. I haven’t read the whole Quran by a long shot, so my own opinion is suspect too. But in my superficial reading I’ve noticed two kinds of suras. One sets out what seems to me to be a relatively rational approach to Abrahamist religion, given the bizarre set of assumptions and backstory that comes with this kind of thing. The other kind of sura seems to show an incredulous resentment that all the Jews and Christians don’t instantly recognize the Good News and the final prophet.
So it’s a mix of stuff you can pull a great deal of different attitudes out of as you see fit. Just as some Old Testament verses make perfect allegorical sense, and others are clearly just primitive tribesmen telling fairy-tale stories and coming up with ways to demonize anyone who isn’t exactly like them. And just as some New Testament books talk about the faith of love and mercy and redemption, and others are about the punishments that unbelievers will face and how God will destroy the unworthy.
This isn’t remotely true, even in modern America. Groups like the KKK ultimately use a twisted interpretation of Christianity to justify their atrocities. And let’s be very clear, the acts of groups like the KKK are absolutely atrocities. They lynched and murdered people.
And this is not merely a footnote of history. This has happened as recently as this year. You had Christian extremists plotting to murder tons of Muslim immigrants. You had a guy walk into a church and murder a dozen people.
You’ve had Mormons with tons of sister wives. There are Christian ministers who peach that women are supposed to be submissive to their husbands will.
Go back just a few decades and you had fairly widespread violence committed against gay people.
Eh, that’s mainly because there aren’t really Christian theocracies any more. The last time there were? It absolutely was the law to persecute, murder, and they’re all kinds of people. You had things like the Inquisition, or the witch trials, or all manner of activities committed in the new world against indigenous populations under the watchful eye of the church.
Or look at some of the really fucked up Christian cults, like the LRA in Africa. Those guys committed truly horrific acts in the name of God.
But i don’t say any of this as a slight against Christianity. The teachings of Christ don’t lead to such things, religion is merely used by evil men to get gullible people to do abhorrent things.
I did enjoy the Quran’s style when I read it as a teenager. There is something to respect in its very direct manner. It doesn’t mess around thats for sure.
Fair post and your KKK example is spot on. When it comes racist scumbaggery Christian extremists are far worse than Islamic extremists imho.
Eh, that’s mainly because there aren’t really Christian theocracies any more.
Indeed! Which is kinda related to my original point.
@timex sorry I was replying to your post. Cheers!
A million times, this.