You would be wrong.
I absolutely agree that there are tons of people using Islam to justify terrible things.
But I am unwilling to attribute all of those bad things to the religion itself, and by extension the billion muslims who practice it.
I usually get all/both sides at me when I opine that organized religion is the opia–er, is just mental illness in my opinion.
Pumpkinology hasn’t killed anyone. OTOH we’re still waiting.
I find it ironic that we’re debating the relative threats and merits of Islam and other religions in the Fox News thread. Meanwhile, the biggest threat to America right now is Fox News and other Conservative Media pushing the false narrative that America is becoming anti-Christian, when in fact it’s actually becoming radicalized Christian. The Conservative Media machine and the GOP have teamed up and nearly accomplished their goal of creating a Theocracy in America, where Conservative/Evangelical Christians now control the majority party in Washington and are an impeachment or resignation away from having the Presidency in their hands as well. The separation of church and state has never been more eroded than it is right now.
We should be a hell of a lot less scared about Sharia Law in America, and a hell of a lot more scared of Conservative Christian Law in America. Ironically, the two are not that dissimilar, but the latter is dangerously close to reality at the moment, and would be devastating to the country and the world should it come to fruition. Fox News, Hannity, Ingraham, Carlson, Pirro and the rest are directly responsible for this, so anything that cuts them down and takes them off the airwaves is a victory in my book.
So I have heard on talk radio here in middle California that the government, particularly the state government, has a plan to outlaw the bible.
Better buy your gun to protect your bible.
See these aren’t mutually exclusive though.
The problem here isn’t the religion. It’s the use of religion as a bludgeon against dissent. If you have people believing the problem is Islam and they think Christianity is okay, then suddenly, hey what’s the problem with Christianity becoming a dominant power because Christian is good right? Except religion can become anything you want it to be if the power in charge can twist it to their ends.
The idea that you can’t take Christianity and twist it into a way to suppress women, kill gays, imprison and murder dissent is simply incorrect. All that’s been done before, and it can be done again to the same extreme levels you see in these other countries.
Well yes, that was kind of my point. Conservative Media is using the fairly improbable threat of America becoming a Sharia Caliphate as a fulcrum to shift the country towards embracing Conservative Christian influence in government as a countermeasure. They frame it as “Evil vs. Good”, when it’s really one type of Evil vs. a different type of Evil.
We can’t let that happen, because as you point out, it won’t take long for them to twist their control into suppression of women, minorities, gays and anyone else they consider “against God”. It keeps me up at night sometimes thinking about how close they are to achieving this very goal, and the average American doesn’t even see it happening.
May as well give it up man. While I continue to refuse to insult Muslims I am more than happy to insult my fellow lefties.
In this case its pure tribalism. The logic goes “Trump is a racist bigot who wants to impose unjust bans on muslims entering the United States.” Which is correct. The conclusion however goes like this. “As Trump is enemy number 1 we therefore oppose any criticism of Islam and are against supporting human rights of oppressed women or gay people within the worst of the Muslim world.”
And yes I am happy to be putting words in the mouth of fellow lefty posters here as they have no problem doing that with me.
On a lighter note I do hope the Qt3 conservative lurkers have enjoyed the spectacle , I call them racists and idiots on an almost daily basis with nary a peep of dissent. Yet I dare to point out that human rights, particularly women’s rights and gay rights within certain areas of the islamic world are appalling and far worse than anything Trump has dreamt up and I get pelters. :) Enjoy qt3 Republicans, I will be coming after you again tomorrow though :)
We just want you to put that education to good use ;).
Absolutely correct. I would hope however you would accept that in one case it is actually happening, today, in certain areas of the Muslim world, which is to be opposed. I have to say Nesrie I am a little surprised you have not expressed more support for women’s rights in the thread. Not that its your job or anything but I know you care deeply about the issue, as do I.
I absolutely and very familiar with terrorism by the IRA , which looking back is small potatoes compared to ISIS although it didn’t feel that way at the time.
Of course Christians (and fellow athiests) are capable of and actually have done terrible and worse things than ISIS in the past. My point remains that today, here and now Islamic extremists rank higher in the scumbag stakes and should be opposed. Again the reaction to this rather sensible position (which is the policy of most middle of the road to left wing European countries incidentally) is striking. And its not me who needs to be considering my position.
As for the scale, sure there is reporting bias but most incidents or terrorism get counted or reported on one way or another. When you look at the scale over the past few years I dont think any reasonable person would doubt the largest group.
Nah, this is a perennial discussion that can crop up in almost any thread on virtually any subject. It follows a well-worn path with essentially the same narrative beats each time. This iteration is notable only in the fact that no one has brought up “The Crusades” yet, I don’t think (I’ve been skimming). Now that we’re into the “show me the polls”/“the polls are worthless” phase, it should die down quickly enough.
Point is clear.
You’re not wrong, exactly, but anti-Islam bias is something worth opposing, right? It’s not a disagreement so much as just a lot of arguing two separate angles on a complex topic.
I haven’t really expressed anything about women’s right in this topic. I haven’t even expressed much in terms of my views on Christianity or Islam in this topic. Balarus just made shit up and decided what my viewpoint is, but he doesn’t actually know it.
What I am expressing is this idea that government or the authority in power is somehow the same as the religion… when it’s clearly not. We have historical examples of this for Christianity so it’s not as if we don’t already know this happens. What is weird is this need to approach the two problems as if they’re different when it’s really the same problem…
Religions should not be the sole guidance for any government, and at this point in time, governments using Islam as an excuse pretty much means none of those countries are a country I would want to visit. This can easily, easily change though and swap out Islam for any other religion like Christianity.
Totally agree. Its a real thing in the United States today and should be vigorously opposed.
I think we are all here capable of holding more than one view at a time. The fact I support a free and independent Palestine doesn’t lessen my support for a safe and secure Israel for example. Nor does my support for the black lives matter movement make me anti-white.
Well, intentionally or not, your insistence that we rank Islam at the top of the world’s most naughty list is giving off whiffs of that kind of sentiment.
But you also insist the opposite, so okay, that’s also true.
I think thats right. Its interesting though isn’t it that any philosophy or religion, when it gets full control over a government tends to go to crap (not always, but often). I rather favour a muddied mess for government.
Please don’t, you have a lot of education here that I lack and I enjoy reading your perspective (as well as @Rod_Humble and others)!