3644

Well, of course it’s going to be generally in rural areas, and most people live in urban areas, so this is expected.

But in rural areas, you have a ton of hunters.

3645

62% of people who own guns in rural areas cite protection, while only 48% cite hunting.

3646

You realize that this doesn’t contradict what I said, right?

There are over 35 million hunting licenses sold in the US annually. Last year nearly a million hunting licenses were sold in PA alone.

Hunting is a big thing here. Trust me, I live here.

3647

Yes, but only 15 million licensed hunters. So those license sales reflect multiple outings by fewer people. There are 126 million households in the US, and (per Pew) that means some 52 million gun-owning households. If only 15 million of those gun owners hunt, then an overwhelming majority of gun owners don’t hunt. And nobody hunts with pistols or AR-15 clones. And, as I said, even in rural areas, the majority of gun owners don’t hunt.

3648

And again, nothing you are saying contradicts what I said, which was

Which you do.

Like I said, it’s a million licenses sold in PA per year. That’s like a tenth of the rural population of PA. Even in cases where you are talking about one person buying multiple licenses, you have a ton of hunters in rural PA. Which anyone who lives here knows.

3649

You’re going to have to 1) define what ‘ton’ means, and 2) explain why it matters that 2% of the population likes to hunt 3 times a year.

3650

Yeah man, who gives a crap what millions of Americans think.

I mean, it’s only a couple hundred thousand hunters in our state. Fuck those guys.

Man, can’t imagine how you guys lost Pennsylvania this round.

3651

I don’t remember any big push by Democrats to take away guns. All they have asked for in latter years is some restrictions, like background checks, doing more about non-hunting guns like AK-47s, etc.

3652

But you see the discussion here, where folks are arguing that not that many people hunt, and who cares if they do anyway.

Hunting is a big a thing in rural parts of our country. Sure, it’s not everyone, but in any group of people you basically have at least one hunter. And hunting has been a thing that folks here have done for generations. Deer hunting is part their culture. And honestly, it’s required from an ecological sustainability perspective.

And sure, you don’t need a semi automatic rifle to hunt. No one i know uses one.

If you want gun control, that’s fine. Most hunters won’t fight you on it, at all.

But don’t try and minimize them, or say they don’t matter, or they shouldn’t care if they can hunt. They do. And there are a lot of them. And they vote. Again, in Pennsylvania alone, we’re talking hundreds of thousands of hunters, most of whom can vote.

3653

Yeah there are a shitload of hunters and relatives of hunters.
Every family has at least one, probably more out here.

If you think it “doesn’t matter” enjoy living in Republican-land forever.

Take the number of hunters and multiply it by at least 10 for the backlash if you dismiss them to account for all their friends and family that will happily rally around them.

3654

Can’t folks use bows to hunt? Seems like that’d be more manly than pointing a gun and pulling a trigger. Much harder to commit murder with a bow also, especially the mass variety.

3655

Sure? But it’s also a shitload harder and in the opinions of many a lot less humane since arrows basically never kill anything quickly. I mean my dad was in a wheelchair, he couldn’t exactly go bow hunting, but he did fine with a shotgun once he got in the stand. Not to mention all the types of hunting where that isn’t remotely realistic. Try nailing a flushed pheasant with a bow and arrow. Or a duck. Hell even a turkey is pretty chancy and they’re huge and can’t fly, though people do it.

I mean if you want to lose elections everywhere, forever, go after hunters and their guns.

Let the good be the enemy of the perfect like always. It’s working out great.

3656

And again, we HAVE to hunt in Pennsylvania, or the deer population will explode to the point where:

  1. you end up getting them with your cars all the time
    And
  2. they suffer mass starvation in bad winters.

In terms of bow hunting, i know a guy who bow hunts. It’s a different thing.

One thing that some folks don’t get, is that on rural areas, hunting isn’t purely for sport. Certainly it’s a thing folks do because they enjoy it, and as i said, it’s a cultural thing.

But another aspect of it is that deer hunting provides a lot of food. You are going to pull around 40 to 60 pounds of meat off a deer. That’s a LOT of food. And that’s food you don’t need to then buy.

Even garbage ground beef, 80% lean, is like $4 a pound, so that’s around $200 of food even if it was all garbage,and venison is gonna be way better than that. A good portion of that is going to be nice steaks, and it’s worth a lot more. From a purely economic perspective, if you took away deer hunting from folks, it’d suck.

Once you get way out in the sticks, folks hunt even more routinely for food, killing things that don’t have a season, like squirrels and stuff. Hell, i had a software engineer in our office bring in a squirrel for lunch a few years back, sitting in the fridge in a tupperware container, i shit you not.

(I admit this was weird, even to me having grown up in Pennsylvania)

3657

This isn’t really remotely a compelling argument, and let me explain why.

I grew up deer hunting, and hunting in general. I have, personally, shot multiple deer, and field dressed more. And though I haven’t gone in a decade, most of my family does.

It is not financially cheaper than buying meat.

The cost of the deer license in Illinois was about $25 a deer, or $45 for a pair. Not a bad deal if that’s the only cost.

But it’s not.

And you’re not guaranteed a deer.

There’s the cost of the ammo, the shotgun, cost of food and lodging for the hunting grounds if you aren’t already living on a farm, camp, scent markers, boots, hand warmers, and on and on. My grandfather owned a cabin in southern Illinois we went to. Given all that my father estimated that it cost between $3-500 per deer he shot, when it was all done. For between 80-150lb of meat.

Now certainly if you live on your own farm and can just walk out a quarter mile in the morning, some of that cost vanishes. But the reality is it still is likely to cost a not insignificant sum. Easily $100 if you have absolutely zero costs other than those directly related to shooting the individual deer. That’s no new clothing, scent masking, calls, shotgun, etc.

If you actually add up the sum total costs, even for someone living in the country hunting their own property, the cost per pound is still going to be higher than buying a pack of chicken or pork at the grocery store.

3658

Welcome to the gun news thread of fine gunnery.

3659

Eh, well certainly there’s some cost to hunting, although I’m not sure what you mean by the cost of lodging and food. I mean, when folks out here go hunting, they aren’t usually going to some resort or something that they are staying at to hunt. They’re just driving out in their truck, or some of them get together for a weekend at a cabin one of them has. For some of them, they are just hunting on their property, but they don’t own farms. There are state game lands everywhere out here. You’re basically never more than a few miles from one. And a hunting license is only $20, and some of the old guys have lifetime licenses (which are only like $50).

Regardless, what you’re saying is right, in that hunting isn’t free, but I’m telling you, the perception of a lot of those hunters is that they are gaining some profit from the experience beyond the sport of it.

And really, ultimately, just let them do their thing. There is no reason not to. Hunting rifles aren’t a real danger to anyone. No one’s doing a mass shooting with a bolt action hunting rifle.

3660

That’s fine. I have no problem with that. What I don’t understand is what have Democrats done that somehow conflates the idea of some restrictions on guns with them wanting to take away guns?

The reality is that if a Democrat even mentions that weapons that can easily modified to be automatics should be restricted, weapons that hunters don’t use to hunt, then the NRA and Republicans accuse that Democrat of wanting to take away guns. There is no reasonable discussion of the point.

3661

Certainly. For someone, like my father, there usually sanguine about the costs. He knew it wasn’t a cost effective food provider, especially since the rewards are variable and unreliable. Goose hunting requires a boat often, and decoys, same for duck. Deer has a lot of variables. He knew it cost more than buying meat.

Now, obviously, some of those costs are because we didn’t live in the country, rather the Chicago suburbs. So we had to travel several hours for a place. And those state game lands can be a bit frightening with the crowding and lack of awareness of many patrons. So for us the cost of going to a place for several days and the food and essentials (toiletries, cleaning supplies, dishes, etc) as well as things like coooking gas all added to the expense. Many people use a trailer, like a pop up. My brother, who lives at the front of the suburbs and country, does that. Because deer hunting is, generally, a multi day event. Duck, goose, pheasant all are partial day events. Deer is a special case because it is a capital E Event. Season is only 4 days long, then another 3 days a month later. You want a deer you got to block out those days, take time off work, the whole shebang. So it was always more expensive.

So it is very much about the experience and not the cost. It is foolish otherwise.

And to be clear, I’m not arguing your core point, that going after hunters in any way is foolish and self defeating. Merely pointing out that, from the perspective of someone who has probably more first hand hunting experience than all but a few here, the financial argument is not a valid defense.

3662

You’ve got folks here, in this thread, a few posts up talking about it.

It’s not a mainstream democratic position, but folks presenting it make it easier for the NRA to say they are coming to take away your hunting rifle.

3663

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^