Timex
4627
I’m sorry, I’m not familiar with the events you are talking about here. What happened in these cases which resulted in the collapse of a country?
Are you sure you’re not confusing immigration and invasion? Or at the very least, forcible occupation of territory? That it might have been preceded by immigration doesn’t really support the argument that immigration caused the collapse of any nation.
Also, you’ve moved the goalposts from “causing collapse” to “political changes.”
-Tom
I think you moved the goal posts there. “Dramatic change in government” is such a subjective standard. So subjective that I’m not sure anyone can say that “it has never happened”. I think the original position was that immigration never caused the collapse of a country.
I will give you the weird, and short-lived, Republic of Texas as a possible example, if you consider voting to join the US a “collapse”.
Maybe the annexation of Crimea (if you consider a part of Ukraine a “country”) by Russia? I don’t know if that was prefaced by a bunch of Russians immigrating in, first, and then having a controversial vote to become independent and then join Russia in one fell swoop. Even if it was, I suspect that Russia would have annexed it regardless of the immigration/suspect vote. Even this is me stretching.
antlers
4630
Jews settled in Palestine in sufficient numbers to persuade the British to partition it to give Jews a homeland.
People from the U.S. settled in Texas (then part of Mexico) in sufficient numbers that they first encouraged its independence from Mexico, and then joined the U.S.
From the perspective of Arabic-speaking Palestinians or Spanish-speaking Mexicans, both circumstances might seem like “collapse”.
After doing more research, I acknowledge that Timor is not an appropriate example for my point.
antlers
4631
Are you going to argue that the partition of Palestine was unrelated to the immigration of Jews that started in the 19th century? Isn’t that partition considered an epic disaster by the Palestinians?
Timex
4632
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Palestine was never a country, ever. Prior to partitioning, it was owned the British.
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Texas fought a war for it’s Independence.
Are we to think that, as Tucker Carlson suggests, that… Someone? Muslims I guess? Hispanics? Are going to immigrate into America and then… Secede as some new country?
The truth is for these guys demographic change = societal collapse. When whites are the minority the country will no longer be “America” even if its political institutions are preserved. Ironically they are willing to endanger the latter to forestall the (basically inevitable) former.
antlers
4634
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Nevertheless, the Palestinians regard the partition that created Israel as a catastrophe.
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The war for Texas independence was funded by cotton grown by immigrants from the U.S.
Immigrants are not a threat to the U.S. because the U.S. is a nation of immigrants.
But it’s absurd to say that immigrants have never been a threat to any nation; history is replete with counterexamples.
Timex
4635
But in neither of those cases, did immigrants lead to the collapse of a country.
Texas is bigger than any country.
Scuzz
4638
Americans who had immigrated to Texas fought a war against the legitimate government in order to take over Texas. It’s not like native Texans (who would have been Mexicans by definition) fought for the independence of Texas.
Nesrie
4639
There was a still war, keyword, being war.
No on is seriously suggesting that through immigration somehow a group of immigrants are going to move to key pieces of the USA and, carve out a section, declare war and then… break up the country right. This seems like a strange concern, and Texas was more of an invasion really than immigrants. I mean the Europeans didn’t just immigrate to the USA either, just to be clear… that was a violent and hostile takeover of native lands.
Scuzz
4640
Not here. I believe the right doesn’t see it as a shooting war but as a cultural war. And they see the results as being the same.
I think you can point to certain areas in the US and say that is or has happened. The difference is that to many people that doesn’t necessarily mean a bad thing. But to the right it does.
Nesrie
4641
Well the right, however we are defining it, is still pissed off that there is no such thing as white culture and make up all kinds of circular arguments to try and remove non-Europeans from the made up culture they think they have.
Cultural wars is largely paranoia, and that one group has always found some boogeyman culture to hate whether it be the Italians, Irish, Chinese, African Americans and now pretty much any brown person south of us they call Mexican.
Menzo
4642
This is such a good point. What in the world is Steve King lamenting when talking about the loss of white culture? McDonald’s? Huge portions? Big Band? Wall Street investor bros?
I guess it doesn’t matter, since all they’re doing is dog whistling.
Scuzz
4643
Polka music disappearing probably.
Weird Al does his best to keep it real ;)
Menzo
4646
You’re probably right, the irony of that though is of course that rock and roll permeates Happy Days quite a bit and the show has lots of themes about the “changing of the guard” and times changing.
Maybe it’s more this:
