OK, I can understand why people would be fighting about that one. That’s a much, much more loaded statement. I’m not claiming my phrasing is equivalent to what any articles, blog posts, or anything else have stated or started with, mind. I’m just trying to figure out whether that actually is what people are fighting about.
I suppose that’s really the thing I have a problem with. I have probably worked something like 30 different jobs over the years, and in all but 2 of them, how I look has been a constant source of friction between my employer and I, and several times been the reason for my termination.
Indeed, my very first real job - the kind where I was dependent on the income - lasted about 2 weeks because I wouldn’t get a haircut.
But yes, employers wouldn’t make these ridiculous demands of their employees, if the customers didn’t make them of the employers.
I just wish people weren’t so fucking busy judging books by their cover.
[Insert ThisIsWhyWeCan’tHaveNiceThings.img]
Nesrie
1983
What’s a little strange is I swear there was an article about a young lady in the gaming industry who wanted to wear cos-play outfits, essentially costumers, and how she felt uncomfortable wearing jeans a T-Shirt… not much support there, but the same people want to defend this guy wearing an idiotic shirt that is completely inappropriate for almost any workplace setting. What the major difference here? You sympathize and understand one but not the other. That’s not a a good measuring stick to use here.
I remember the story about the young lady that wanted to wear “girly”, as she put it, dresses to trade shows and gaming events and couldn’t fathom why no one wanted to take her seriously. (The cosplay bit was different as I remember. She initially didn’t want to cosplay, her editor asked her to do so to write a story about the experience, then she got offended when a friend made fun of her.) I felt the same way as I do about the tacky Hawaiian shirt. There’s a time and place for goofy or “expressive” clothing, and you need to dress appropriately if you want to be taken seriously. She didn’t need to dress like a dude, but strapless cocktail dresses or ruffly Holly Hobby dresses at a gaming con say more about the person than whatever other thing they want to actually discuss.
This resonates. Clothes are like words. Consider the audience. Consider the message you want to communicate. Choose them to maximize your effectiveness.
(then go home and complain, often with complete justification, about how that whole dance shouldn’t be as important as it is.)
Nesrie
1986
And this is where he messed up. I don’t know that this guy is persay sexist or even meant anything but… he didn’t think. The message was bad, the audience was wrong, and how good you are at something does not invalidate that mistake. If someone thought her want was hokey, I don’t now how the same person can defend his choice and not run into a double standard.
I completely agree that you can communicate via your appearance. I try to every day.
I’m also completely baffled that you wouldn’t take a cosplayer or someone in a cocktail dress seriously?
As for the shirtgate shirt, to me it’s a special case because of the context in which it was worn, which is that the related sciences have major problems with women. Because of that context the shirt communicated something it wouldn’t have done in other contexts.
Busbecq
1988
I remember feeling sympathetic for her. EGL is cool. I think life would be more fun if we cut loose a little bit, instead of gritting our teeth and joylessly waiting for death. I wonder if guys like magnet feel their blood pressure rise whenever they see someone
a) not wearing a charcoal gray suit
b) smiling
magnet
1989
Actually I never even wear a tie, unlike most of my coworkers. Except for when I am in front of an audience. That’s just common sense.
And here are some smiles, just for you Bubu.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
It is not work inappropriate because it is sexist. You have a lot more leniency when you’re just out on the town than when you at your job and there are other people you need to work and get along with all day.
Should. Instead, they’re mud-slinging. People!
Teiman
1992
In some people head, the Left are the good guys and the right are the bad guys.
In some people head, the atheist are the good guys, and the religious nut jobs are the are the bad guys.
In some people head, the SJW are the good guys, and the people that fight them are the bad guys.
But is not about bad or good guys. Is about how you behave has a human.
Theres a line, and the line is hate speech. But the line is not “This guy disagree with me, so is the bad guys”.
Theres a line of what is Ok and can be tolerated. On the good side of that line theres thing you will find disgusting and are still Ok. Not everything that offend you is offensive. Not everything that is offensive is not-Ok.
If you think everything that offend you is no-Ok, you are a fascist.
If you think everything that is offensive is not-Ok, you are a fascist.
Some people like porn, some people like fireworks, some people like religious demostrations, some people like gay festivals on the streets. Tolerante is about tolerating even the things you don’t like.
Also, don’t confuse your work rules for what is morally ok. Odds are, you work rules are designed to maximize profit, not what is fair.
Perhaps your work rules are designed to maximize profit by having every outliner shut the fuck up, but thats a controlled enviroment where people can’t be themselve. Is not something you can extend to how society must work, because “shut the fuck up” to every outliner is fascism. Its ok on the work because you can always walk trough the door to find other job. You can’t walk away from society.
There usually are. Boris was much better when he was doing the Light Entertainment circuit, and was intentionally funny.
He’s still funny now…just, you know, the kind that smells a bit.
Alstein
1994
EGL should be a mandatory work uniform some places…
We’d be better off as a society with less stringent dress codes in general. Makes things more egalitarian.
I turned down some (low-paying) jobs in the past due to dress code. A big reason why I stuck at my current job (though it’s likely to go next year) is because the dress code was “don’t be Freddie Mercury”. That said, if I truly need a job, I will do what I have to do.
Aleck
1995
I think you’re right that no one could defend his choice to wear that shirt and then not defend the gaming industry person wanting to wear her girly (or was it Victorian?) outfits. That would be a double standard. However, I don’t think most folks are defending him or saying that it wasn’t an poor decision – it clearly was unprofessional, and could be judged as unprofessional at any time, but especially if/when you’re going in front of the media or public. He admitted as much, and apologized.
What is overblown is the reaction to the shirt, which (for a brief moment) overshadowed the entire story of landing a probe on a comet.
In the context of the story? A woman in a strapless cocktail dress asked for interviews at a gaming convention. She wore an inappropriate outfit for the venue and was surprised that interviewees didn’t take her seriously.
I was always kinda surprised at how acting and appearing reasonably professional got me such better results in my previous life as a game journo. Then again, I was also rather surprised at how unprofessional many other journo types consistently were. Not all by any means, but a significant enough fraction.
Are we seriously debating whether dressing appropriately for work contexts is something that reasonable people do?
One reason I like working in games is that the dress code absolutely involves jeans and t-shirt (And some people push it, often hard).
Lecturing, well, yea, dress code. Fortunately it doesn’t involve suits or ties, unless you’re in the business school.
(Some of the ties I’ve seen…but no, apparently pretty much anything not porn goes on a tie in said business school, even pink elephants on one and hash leaves on another…)
How/why was the outfit inappropriate? Why not take her seriously?
- I’m not saying I’m surprised. I could probably have predicted the outcome if I had considered it and, most likely, so could she. But I don’t understand why.
Implying that only unreasonable people wouldn’t go out of their way to dress just like their peers, regardless how they feel about doing so?
