Game journalism backlash - the microcosm theory

LMN8R · 2014-11-18T14:12:56.000Z

Holy shit.

GamerGate is embracing Jack Thompson because he accused Anita Sarkeesian of trying to censor media.

GamerGate literally could not be any dumber at this point. The perfect definition of irony. Jack Thompson - the guy who actually tried to make violent video games illegal - accusing a critic who wants games to be more inclusive of “censorship”

twitter.com

moth dad (innesmck)

Hahaha Jack Thompson (yes, *that* disbarred attorney Jack Thompson) is now involved with The Sarkeesian Effect. http://t.co/LKa5r2MqJP

9:23 PM - 18 Nov 2014 30 52

Telefrog · 2014-11-18T14:16:29.000Z

That can’t be real. That’s just wacko. Like super-dumb crazy.

Alstein · 2014-11-18T14:30:51.000Z

I really wish the GG folks weren’t around because they’re making other vile folks look good in comparison.

That said, as much as I see the need to conform to get what you want, I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize the culture of workplace conformity.
I think business attire in itself should be phased out, much the same way powdered wigs and breeches were. That doesn’t mean I would rebel in a workplace that I valued.

LMN8R · 2014-11-18T14:33:04.000Z

Definitely not about hating women tho. No misogyny here.

Just a dude who created countless YouTube videos and started a Patreon with the exclusive sole purpose of demonizing a woman who says critical things about games, teaming up with the disbarred lawyer who literally tried to censor them in the truest sense of the word by making them illegal.

Just a dude, that the most devoted GamerGators look up to as a leader.

So, who are GamerGate’s biggest public allies now?

Adam Baldwin - Hates Video Games
Milo - Hates Video Games
Juice Bro Lawyer - Hates Video Games
“Based Mom” - Hates Video Games
Jack Thomson - Hates Video Games

But Leigh Alexander, Anita Sarkeesian, and other “SJWs”? Probably bigger fans of games than most people here will ever be.

AlanQ · 2014-11-18T14:34:45.000Z

Alstein:

I really wish the GG folks weren’t around because they’re making other vile folks look good in comparison.

That said, as much as I see the need to conform to get what you want, I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize the culture of workplace conformity.
I think business attire in itself should be phased out, much the same way powdered wigs and breeches were. That doesn’t mean I would rebel in a workplace that I valued.

I kind of agree, but I also think there is something to be said for the idea that clothes should not be a workplace distraction. A certain amount of formality can (but doesn’t always) promote a sense of responsibility and respect. Ideally, though, we’d all wear matching unisex jumpsuits like we’re from a shiny utopian future.

Virgil_Hilts · 2014-11-18T14:41:50.000Z

Desslock- Setting aside how, as a real man, you appear to be genuinely hurt that I said a swear on the internet…

We’re living in a bubble? I thought you were weeping for humanity. Either you’re winning or you’re losing, it can’t be both.

P.S. We both know which it is. You see how society regards the conservative views of 50 years ago.

Tortilla · 2014-11-18T14:42:05.000Z

Alstein:

I really wish the GG folks weren’t around because they’re making other vile folks look good in comparison.

That said, as much as I see the need to conform to get what you want, I think it’s perfectly fair to criticize the culture of workplace conformity.
I think business attire in itself should be phased out, much the same way powdered wigs and breeches were. That doesn’t mean I would rebel in a workplace that I valued.

Business attire can not and will not ever be phased out. Human nature is to create organizational cultures with their own codes of dress, behavior, etc.

Today’s business casual codes may be obsoleted and replaced by standards more appealing to younger generations but there will always be standards and codes and expectations.

Virgil_Hilts · 2014-11-18T14:47:06.000Z

Like, and this goes for Aszurom and Buc the rest, you can see the battle lines here. You know exactly why Chu is writing for the Daily Beast but Based Milo is writing for a Breitbart satellite campus. There’s no divide here among the educated class.

I get that makes you angry. It’s certainly not the first thing to make you angry about this crazy mixed up world. It won’t be the last, either. But let’s not pretend that MRAs and white supremacists have some claim to “liberal” or “progressive”. You can pretend to be a part of the tech-savvy left, or you can pretend #GG has a point. There’s no eye in that needle, though, it’s one or the other.

Telefrog · 2014-11-18T14:48:03.000Z

At best what happens is that the “cool guys” say something like “casual attire is awesome” like Google or Facebook, but even that is a sort of business uniform that reflects the company image they want to project. I’ve dealt with clients that didn’t have a formal dress code, but then privately told me that our reps’ suit jackets made them uncomfortable. Could we please have them show up in something more causal like Polo shirts and khakis? Hey, goobers! That’s a dress code!

Busbecq · 2014-11-18T14:50:24.000Z

Virgil Hilts:

You can pretend to be a part of the tech-savvy left, or you can pretend #GG has a point. There’s no eye in that needle, though, it’s one or the other.

There’s a third way: embrace the belief that anyone who tries to lionize themselves on the basis of positions they take in internet arguments (rather than the quality of their argumentation, or their humor, or whatever quality that makes their posts worth reading) is a dipshit.

Alstein · 2014-11-18T14:50:51.000Z

Tortilla:

Business attire can not and will not ever be phased out. Human nature is to create organizational cultures with their own codes of dress, behavior, etc.

Today’s business casual codes may be obsoleted and replaced by standards more appealing to younger generations but there will always be standards and codes and expectations.

That’s fine by me. I don’t think we need to turn things into a zoo. A barn is sufficient.

Teiman · 2014-11-19T06:56:34.000Z

Guys.

“Uniforms” is the oldest psychological trick in the book.

You steal people of their individualy and turn then into cogs in the machine.

They look more respectable because they are not human anymore, they are part of a machine-organization.

Don’t attack somebody because he look different. Thats a 6 years old behavior, we are better than that.

Dan_Theman · 2014-11-19T07:05:01.000Z

There have been times that it’s so warm where I work that I’d prefer to sit around in my boxers and nothing else. I don’t, of course, because I have respect for the people I work with and run into during my day, and I realize they may not be happy with such a spectacle. Once I get home, it’s all fair game. I “attack” (judge) people for lacking that respect, not for looking different.

Tortilla · 2014-11-19T07:10:26.000Z

Teiman:

Guys.

“Uniforms” is the oldest psychological trick in the book.

You steal people of their individualy and turn then into cogs in the machine.

They look more respectable because they are not human anymore, they are part of a machine-organization.

Don’t attack somebody because he look different. Thats a 6 years old behavior, we are better than that.

If it’s a trick to steal individuality why do people do it voluntarily and absent any enforcing authority?

Tin_Wisdom · 2014-11-19T07:11:41.000Z

I don’t think that “dress code” even remotely translates to “uniforms” for the vast majority of corporations out there.

Sure, you’ve still got some firms that specify white shirt, dark suit, tie… but that’s about as bad as it gets. Business-casual “standard” is slacks and a collared shirt… which means that you’ve got a vast range of colors, styles, designs, etc.

Somewhat ironically in a thread about oppressing women, even in the most conservatively-dressed professions women tend to have a lot more leeway in what they can wear than men do. The down-side to that is that it tends to be much more expensive for them and of course they have to worry about overstepping boundaries, whereas men can do the Einstein route and pretty much wear the exact same thing each day without raising eyebrows.

inactive_user · 2014-11-19T08:14:19.000Z

Women have a shitload more expectations and judgment around what they wear alongside that additional leeway too.

The strawmanning up in here is amazing. Uniforms stifle the inherent personness of the individual! Down with the man! The whole derail started with people mad that they can’t wear ridiculous shit in a professional context without consequence, but hey, let’s pretend that every job in any corporation makes you wear dark slacks with white shirt, blazer and tie. Not, y’know, pants and a shirt and probably it’d be good to take a shower once in a while.

Seriously. We started with “strapless cocktail dress maybe isn’t the best outfit for doing your job” and went straight to “HURR DURR SOULLESS CORPORATE COGS WAY TO PERPETUATE THE MAN’S CONTROL OVER YOUR LIFE, MAN.”

But yes, I kowtow to the evil corporate culture by wearing a t-shirt and hoodie, or a polo shirt, instead of a bitchin’ mesh tank top that shows off the goods.

Disconnected · 2014-11-19T10:42:00.000Z

Tortilla:

If it’s a trick to steal individuality why do people do it voluntarily and absent any enforcing authority?

There is an enforcing authority, we just usually call it the majority instead. But it will absolutely enforce its shit. Where you live it probably limits itself to things like shunning, ridicule and denying people opportunities. But elsewhere in this world, it will take pretty much any action up to and including murder. It’s how things like honour killings happen.

It’s also not always left solely to the majority to play enforcing authority. In many places in this world, the government will assume the role to some extent.

Desslock · 2014-11-19T10:57:47.000Z

AlanQ:

Be totally honest: what do you think would happen if a young associate at a big firm wore that shirt to an important closing?

Again, not sure how that’s relevant to this discussion, other than to demonstrate that law firms have more formal dress codes than software companies or other tech shops, including apparently rocket scientist labs.

Busbecq · 2014-11-19T10:58:52.000Z

Dan_Theman:

There have been times that it’s so warm where I work that I’d prefer to sit around in my boxers and nothing else. I don’t, of course, because I have respect for the people I work with and run into during my day, and I realize they may not be happy with such a spectacle. Once I get home, it’s all fair game. I “attack” (judge) people for lacking that respect, not for looking different.

I’ve had outdoor jobs where women I worked with went topless because it was a hot day and there wasn’t anyone around to tell them not to. Was that disrespect? I didn’t really think so, and I didn’t care when men went barechested either. Maybe you just live in a gray little bubble. This is your cue to tell me that I’m trolling/a bigot.

Dan_Theman · 2014-11-19T11:06:11.000Z

Busbecq:

I’ve had outdoor jobs where women I worked with went topless because it was a hot day and there wasn’t anyone around to tell them not to. Was that disrespect? I didn’t really think so, and I didn’t care when men went barechested either. Maybe you just live in a gray little bubble. This is your cue to tell me that I’m trolling/a bigot.

No, I live in the same “bubble” that the vast majority of people do. At most jobs, if people stripped off a significant amount of clothing then they’d get fired. If people at your job place are comfortable with wearing (or not) whatever, then that’s great. If you’re giving an interview, the people you work with includes the interviewer and your clients are people who watch/read that interview - it’s a PR thing. If you’re so awesome that you don’t care what anyone else thinks, that’s fine, but then don’t get bent out of shape when other people think you’re being an ass.