That’s a loaded question. You’d have to agree on what constitutes “inappropriately politicized” in this context. Some people found the Bayonetta 2 review brought inappropriate politics into the article. Others didn’t.
Desslock- If I was a black dude who liked realistic medieval sims, was interested in this game, but I wanted to play a character who looked like me, is there any way at all that I can express that without making you cry the endless (and utterly delicious) tears of a culture war sore loser?
Who, precisely, did something wrong here?
How is it a loaded question? I’m asking for an example. People can disagree with the example after it’s provided, but that’s true of any question. What do you think “loaded question” means? (I don’t even know the name of the rhetorical device I used there, because the implied point of my question is that there is no example forthcoming. It’s not “loaded question”, though, loaded questions are like “Have you stopped beating your wife?”)
But to your example, Bayonetta 2’s review was not a “news article”. Bayonetta 2’s release date was a news article. Here’s how Polygon covered that:
Jesus man. I don’t know why I bothered to post in here again. It’s a loaded question because you know damn well that there really isn’t an example that anyone can supply that you won’t disagree with unless it’s an article posted by a GG person criticizing something you don’t like.
Your standards for “inappropriately politicized” aren’t likely the same as some others - especially not the people you normally disagree with on this general topic.
Edit: And you admitted to it just now, so why even ask? Fuck it. I’m just not going to reply to anything you post from now on. Your shit is infuriating.
I actually have no idea what you are disagreeing with me about. You seem to be saying the same thing, except using worse examples. The whole first paragraph of your reply is complete mystery to me.
You seem to be saying that some gamers understandably want varied avatars who may or may not look like themselves, which I said as well. Do you not agree that the identify of the Avatar is something that a lot of gamers don’t care about as well, because they are content with the story or game the developers want to tell using the character (Nathan Drake, Lara Croft, Pac-Man, Queen of Blades, whatever) of the developer’s choosing, or accept that there are more important design goals for that particular game? What are you disagreeing with?
I’d at least like to see such an example, if it exists, so I know what the issue is. I seriously don’t know. Sincerely and honestly, I cannot think of an politicized “news article” in video game journalism, of any appropriateness. There are almost no news articles in video game journalism! The whole field is criticism and opinion.
This is how people discuss things.
“I think this is a problem”
“I’m not sure if I understand, can you provide an example of the problem?”
is INFURIATING SHIT to you?
Your standards for “inappropriately politicized” aren’t likely the same as some others - especially not the people you normally disagree with on this general topic.
Edit: And you admitted to it just now, so why even ask? Fuck it. I’m just not going to reply to anything you post from now on. Your shit is infuriating.
I have no idea why you’re being so hostile here. “Can you provide an example of the thing you’re angry about” is not a loaded question! You’re skipping like 3 steps ahead in this conversation.
Not at all. Hard news can still present a “narrative” that is backed by sources. Wikipedia, for instance, is not simply a bunch of regurgitated PRs.
Other industries, notably, ones with grownups in the media, do not have the problem to the extent the game media has.
You can cover, for example, the latest console news without the news author going into a tangent of personal, unsupported, opinions and spin.
Most of my career has been spent dealing with the tech media that has been heavily populated by actual journalists. Too often, the gaming media relies on barely paid freelancers who have no idea how to write news.
Now, I realize this is painting with a broad brush so let me be clear: This is not a universal problem in the gaming media. A lot of the game sites are still run as actual journalistic endeavors with editorial standards.
I totally understand why it’s hard for them. There’s very little money in game journalism. But rather than acknowledge or try to improve themselves they lazily accuse their critics of being motivated by misogyny. It isn’t persuasive and is, in fact, embarrassing to watch people who should know better trying to cover up their sloppiness with such lazy smears.
There is no dissonance in recognizing that individuals like Zoe Quinn received horrible harassment while understanding that it isn’t motivated by misogyny. I am keenly familiar with how toxic the Internet can be. I think there would be broad agreement that there is a serious problem with it.
I am keenly familiar with how toxic the Internet can be. I think there would be broad agreement that there is a serious problem with it.
Is Brad Wardell calling all people on the internet toxic here? ALL of us?
I hear what you’re saying, although I personally suspect that the perceived anonymity of the Internet allows things like misogny to flourish more than in personal spaces. Then again, like you said, there is also a segment of people who upon finding a susceptible target will simply say whatever is the most terrible thing they can think of without any specific need for some specific outlook (the trolls will be trolls axiom). It’s pretty hard to determine what percentage of the harassment came from that group and therefore to line it up with established non-Internet norms.
Indeed. If actual journalists were involved they would likely have interviewed some game group that said “yes, we don’t loke women playing games.” Thus far, we’ve been unable to locate the misogynists that we keep being told about.
More likely, there are jerks on the net who customize their bile for their target.
LMN8R
3051
All of this stems from your premise that there’s some epidemic going around involving games writers exhibiting those notions you’re purporting to exist.
So do you actually have data to show it’s a widespread problem? Or is this just selection bias at play? Even Polygon and Kotaku only discuss issues of misogyny, harassment, feminism, and other such topics in an extremely tiny minority of all of their posts. And usually when they do, it’s in pieces that are clearly labeled “opinion”.
Alstein
3052
I don’t know if it’s a widespread problem, but it is definitely a problem in the esports communities, especially fighting games. Just today there was a very large scandal with Smash (basically a major and very hated oragnizer had to leave the largest Smash event due to Cosby-level accusations of being super-aggressive towards underaged girls) , and the anime games such as Guilty Gear are really a viper’s den of problems to the point it’s caused good friends of mine to stop playing them offlne.
It’s weird, I simultaneously think things are overblown in some areas, while getting angry at areas where it is a major problem. It’s led to a lot of confusing positions on my part that I sometimes find difficult to reconcile.
Quaro
3053
Interview with Silverstring Media, the studio at the center of GamerGate’s DARPA theory:
Do you think that there are issues in games journalism that need to be addressed?
Yes, insofar as the bulk of large “games journalism” sites have remained remarkably aloof and quiet about what clearly amounts to a sustained and aggressive hate movement that thrives on misinformation and hearsay – one that specifically targets the very people whom those same sites pass over for jobs time and time again, despite those minority voices being consistently among the best and brightest writers in the industry. While many sites have weighed in on GamerGate by now, the fact that they were beaten by major news networks like ABC and CNN (whose coverage was far less conciliatory toward the harassers) underlies their failure to provide meaningful information and commentary on the actual goings-on in gaming. Meanwhile, like Prometheus’s liver, each day of the 140-or-so that GamerGate has gone on has seen renewed supplies of press-releases for us to gobble down, lovingly massaged into bite-sized article pâté by underpaid writers. Oh right – critical and journalistic writing in the games industry often pays a pittance and even more often pays nothing.
So yes, we think games journalism has issues that need to be addressed. Horrifyingly, the above seems to be the only parts of games journalism that GamerGate DOESN’T think is disturbing or broken.
How would you respond to allegations that you are tied to both DARPA and Gawker Media?
~By pulling off these human flesh masks and using our moon beams to call for reinforcements from our draconian home planet!~
Mostly we respond by sitting around wondering where people come up with this stuff. We’re a handful of friends a few years out of college trying to scrape by while making games we like. And yet somehow anonymous harassers on the internet believe we control Gawker Media and the IGF awards. We have literally been called “the final boss” of the internet. Multiple times. We’ve done well enough so far to stick around in a volatile industry, sure, and we are good at our jobs, but that’s hardly final boss material. Really we’re more of a mid-boss. In an early dungeon.
What GamerGaters hilariously fail to realize is that this “us-vs-them” mentality they are so keen to foster is only going to lead to the hated “collusion” (read: conversation and cooperation) that they seek to unmask. When GamerGate started frothing at the mouth that we control the IGF, several folks associated with the IGF followed us on Twitter or signed up for our newsletter. I can only imagine that they were quite curious who had supposedly been giving them phantom alien brainwave orders all this time.
We still see calls for more “investigation” into us every day.
LOL so to boil down this past couple of pages, that Czech guy’s hypothetical and imaginary suffering is a serious problem, the politicization of news articles is also a serious problem that requires not even a single example… but harassment campaigns specifically targeted at women, specifically for the purpose of counteracting “third wave feminists” trying to Cultural Marxism our hobby with their tropes videos and also free text games…
Without an admission of misogyny, well, let’s not jump to conclusions. A white dude’s feelings could get hurt!
Busbecq
3055
Salon.com and the Guardian finally have the courage to connect the dots on Gamergate and right wing terror. Hopefully the security agencies will follow suit. Even WATERBOARDING is too good for this gang run riot!
Timex
3057
That seems a bit sensationalistic.
Hey, what ever sells right? Gotta bring those clicks in.
Salon’s stuff is sensationalism, sure.
What the Guardian says is common sense.
Gamergate also causes climate change, and deflated the Patriot’s footballs.
