Gamergate holds that people who express opinions they don’t like should be punished, anonymous-style, achieving a desired chilling effect.
Anti-GG is really just everyone who doesn’t agree and think opinions and criticism should be allowed to be expressed without fear of retribution.
Timex
3082
If this is the definition we’re using, then I’m pretty certain every person on this forum would be considered anti-GG.
This is a great example of the cognitive dissonance that the #GG side (and I’m not saying RickH is one of them) seems hampered with.
“I would like to play as a woman in GTA games” != “GTA games are terrible because I can’t play as a woman and should be expunged from existence”
In fact, it would tend to mean almost the exact opposite. It implies that the writer enjoys the GTA games and is looking forward to playing more, but feels that the already-enjoyable experience would be enhanced for him/her if there was also a female protagonist.
There are assholes on the Internet who harass people.
Anti-GG is really just everyone who doesn’t agree and think opinions and criticism should be allowed to be expressed without fear of retribution.
LOL. Seriously, that’s hilarious.
That would be a reasonable explanation if there was harassment in equal proportion going in all direction. However it’s pretty plainly obvious that’s not the case and there is a huge amount being directed at female game developers, critics, and reviewers in particular. So your explanation makes zero sense. Since we know you are not a stupid individual, you are either willfully ignoring the reality of the harassment that’s happening or trying to hand wave off the issue since it’s not something one can rebut with any rational arguments.
Which is it Brad?
I think that’s true to a degree, they are objecting the games media using their platform to coerce game developers to alter their games to be more socially conscious. That doesn’t make them misogynists.
For example, they’re making the new Thor a woman. Not liking that doesn’t make someone a misogynist. The new Green latern of Earth 2 is gay. Some people don’t like that. That doesn’t make them homophobic.
If someone wants to argue that there are a contingent of people who don’t like change to their hobby then I can get behind that. It’s the leap to what their motive is. It’s the character assassination that people are objecting to.
You making an unsubstantiated assertion doesn’t make that evidence. I’ve had more than my fair share of Internet harassment in my career. If you are a public figure who says, does or is accused of things that the public doesn’t like, it’s pretty rough. The more well known a figure is, the more crap they are likely to get.
While true, this statement benefits from further analysis. You’re right that a Thor purist or fan of traditional Norse mythology might object to a female Thor, and thus everyone who dislikes the change isn’t automatically a misogynist. However, misogynists will dislike the new Thor pretty much across the board, and homophobes will have the same reaction to the new GL. Thus, they will make up a higher percentage of those who object to these changes than they do of the general populace.
Wait a minute. Green Lantern is going to be gay?
PLEASEGODLETTHISBEINTHENEWSUPERMANBATMANMOVIE
You make it sound so binary, so clear. Many folks out in the wild flying the Anti-GG flag, however, tend to be a little more nebulous. Would it blow your mind If I linked you to some of those people being suppressive, intimidating, or even… shady? Or better yet, let’s make a metagame out of it where I link to every instance of it I can find and try to paint a pattern of behavior with which to brand the entire “group.” It’s be like the #GG thread on BF, only with a Twilight Zone-styled ironic twist.
Of course I’m both too lazy to do all that and also negatively inclined to defend channers at all, even via devil’s advocate, but I hope you get my drift. Sometimes we look the other way, y’know?
Weird how Brad has apparently, sincerely, gone back to “it’s about ethics in game journalism” like it’s still August. It wasn’t true then, but for God’s sake, on this thread some brave hero of white male resentment is yelling about how wymyn are trying to make Rockstar not be Rockstar if they talk about wanting a female avatar.
Hell, without even that(since obviously Brad will just say that all the misogynists railing about SJWs aren’t real #GGers and also wouldn’t admit that they are misogynists), his argument falls apart internally.
To recap:
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Some woman, any woman, says that internet gaming culture is infested with toxic misogyny which is fed by the industry and in turn influences the industry. This is OBVIOUSLY TRUE.
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However, saying true things hurts people like Desslock’s feelings, so they get to wailing and weeping about their victimization because someone wrote something they disagreed with. (very little concern for letting Gawker be Gawker among the #GG set)
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I guess the theory is that independent of that wailing and weeping, otherwise neutral assholes decide to send rape threats to the woman?
Right? That’s the version of history Brad and Rick are trying to sell. But even in that version, uh, you’re conceding that woman is right about the toxic culture.
See, this is where the objection stems from: Calling people misogynists. I suspect we’re more likely to find a gnome than a misogynist.
Generally, I think what most people object to is feeling patronized and when their hobby or interest is having things injected into them seemingly in the name of trying to “improve” the consumer, people will resent that.
Much of this GG thing boils down to people resenting having what they see as irrelevant social justice issues jammed into their hobby by people who have shown a naked contempt for them. And when they object to being patronized they’re accused of being misogynists or homophobes or racists or what have you.
Aleck
3094
I agree with this definition.
I think it also works for Anti-SJW.
A pox on both their houses.
It is heartening to see Brad disclaim that ridiculous “Gamer’s Bill of Rights”, which literally a list of things which should be forbidden for developers.
If Sierra wants to use copyprotection which sometimes erases your C: drive upon uninstallation, well, let Sierra be Sierra. To say negative things about “always online”, intrusive anti-piracy tools, “pay to win” mechanics, or bugs… Why, imagine what that could do to someone’s Metacritic bonus!
Well I am anti-GG for those reasons as is pretty much everyone I know who cares to know anything about the issue. For me being Anti-GG is a reaction to the component of GG that decided to launch extended harassment campaigns against women. Since by all appearances “ethics in games journalism” is simply being used as a smokescreen by that component, there is nothing about gamergate that recommends itself.
In this thread, the main concern of GG defenders has been that powerful and influential third wave feminists are subverting the games industry, or even society as a whole, i.e. the whole cultural marxism conspiracy theory. It’s really easy to be anti-GG when that’s their main line of argument.
Sure if you like, but the SJWs are really hard to find. In fact when people were asked to find examples of overbearing SJW behaviour (harassment campaigns, boycotts, calls for banning products or services) they really couldn’t find anything. It probably happens but it seems to be pretty ignorable, unlike GG which has driven people away from the industry and in some cases, out of their homes.
When Brad says “without fear of retribution” he means people can say whatever they believe without fear of getting called sexist or racist, when you say “without fear of retribution” you mean without 8chan forcing you from your home with threats of swatting. It’s a context issue, you’re talking past each other.
I’ll easily agree that all sorts of people take abuse they don’t deserve to take on the Internet…
However, taking abuse because someone thinks you’ve done something bad on a real level, that real harm was done is IMO very different from someone taking abuse because they have an opinion on video games. Granted, the difference might be lost on the people taking the abuse…
I think your definition of misogyny must be very, very restrictive to say that. I’ve known quite a few personally and encountered far more online.
