So, the 6 month long wikibattle over gamergate and other wikipages finally sees the Arbcom issue a wikidecision.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2015/jan/23/wikipedia-bans-editors-from-gender-related-articles-amid-gamergate-controversy

Dworkin way have been influential academically, but her more extreme ideas kept her well out of mainstream. I have a feeling LMN8R is talking about people with actual real world influence.

Ooh, I have a link for real world Dworkin influence.

http://www.scottaaronson.com/blog/?p=2091#comment-326664

Anyone who thinks Dworkin was “preeminent” over women like Steinem and Friedan during the 20th century is coming from a place so far removed from factual reality that their whole statement can be thrown out as garbage.

Look at all these cismales trying to define feminism for us :)

You left out the person who said this:

Do you think Penis-in-Vagina intercourse is rape, no exceptions? Because Andrea Dworkin did, and she was the preeminent feminist of the 20th century.

You claim Dworkin was preeminent; prove it. Go stand on a downtown street corner and ask a few hundred passersby to name a 20th century feminist. Most people will probably fail to think of any, but I’m absolutely positive that Dworkin won’t come out ahead among those who do.

Hey, I don’t purport to be an ally or superior to anyone on this forum or planet.

Did Dworkin invent the poorly formatted, incredibly long blog comment? Perhaps MRAs are right about feminists, then.

Oh you definitely purport the latter. You ooze smug superiority.

But please go on and tell us about how Dworkin has become mainstream thought.

My reaction to Dworkin, who I first encountered in the late 70’s, was probably typical. I said then that every major religion, movement, or political philosophy, no matter how benign or well-intentioned, is guaranteed to spawn or attract extremists sooner or later and that Dworkin was one of them. Nothing since has altered my opinion.

The problem with extremists like that is they’re seized on by those who wish to discredit the entire movement they’re a part of, which is exactly what Busbecq is doing here. If Dworkin was “the preeminent feminist of the 20th century”, he can dismiss feminism entirely by referencing her. But she was just a fringe radical.

and the content, and context for the link?

tl;dr

Scott Aaronson is a MIT professor and feminist. He certainly is not representative of anyone or any subculture, and certainly not mainstream.

I’ve read at least a dozen feminist books, of which my favorite was Andrea Dworkin’s Intercourse (I like howls of anguish much more than bureaucratic boilerplate, so in some sense, the more radical the feminist, the better I can relate)

(sigh) Here’s the thing: I spent my formative years—basically, from the age of 12 until my mid-20s—feeling not “entitled,” not “privileged,” but terrified. I was terrified that one of my female classmates would somehow find out that I sexually desired her, and that the instant she did, I would be scorned, laughed at, called a creep and a weirdo, maybe even expelled from school or sent to prison.

You can call that my personal psychological problem if you want, but it was strongly reinforced by everything I picked up from my environment: to take one example, the sexual-assault prevention workshops we had to attend regularly as undergrads, with their endless lists of all the forms of human interaction that “might be” sexual harassment or assault, and their refusal, ever, to specify anything that definitely wouldn’t be sexual harassment or assault. I left each of those workshops with enough fresh paranoia and self-hatred to last me through another year.

At one point, I actually begged a psychiatrist to prescribe drugs that would chemically castrate me (I had researched which ones), because a life of mathematical asceticism was the only future that I could imagine for myself. The psychiatrist refused to prescribe them, but he also couldn’t suggest any alternative: my case genuinely stumped him.

But I hope you now understand why I might feel “only” 97% on board with the program of feminism. I hope you understand why, despite my ironclad commitment to women’s reproductive choice and affirmative action and women’s rights in the developing world and getting girls excited about science, and despite my horror at rape and sexual assault and my compassion for the victims of those heinous crimes, I might react icily to the claim—for which I’ve seen not a shred of statistical evidence—that women are being kept out of science by the privileged, entitled culture of shy male nerds, which is worse than the culture of male doctors or male filmmakers or the males of any other profession. I believe you guys call this sort of thing “blaming the victim.” From my perspective, it serves only to shift blame from the ass-grabbers onto some of society’s least privileged males, the ones who were themselves victims of bullying and derision, and who acquired enough toxic shame that way for appealing to their shame to be an effective way to manipulate their behavior.

That’s a key piece in relation to this thread.

Anyway, it all worked out in the end for Scott.

I’m now quite happy, with a wonderful wife and a beautiful 2-year-old daughter.

I don’t think his tale is a negative, or a positive, but a perspective little of us would imagine exists, and well, yes, it is an example of Dworkins most extreme thoughts being taken to heart, albeit a rare one.

It’s always baffling to me, playingwithknives, how you make claims and then post links and quotes as evidence that either directly contradict your claims or at best illustrate something fairly unrelated.

It’s like you are trolling yourself.

I referenced a comment on Dworkin with a fairly interesting story.

It’s all about perspective.

I could put on my cynics hat and point out the guy who was such a hardcore feminist that he wanted to get chemically castrated to remove himself from the patriarchy and it still wasn’t enough, he was still accused of being a white nerd cishet shitlord as the SJWs turned on each other like frenzied piranhas, and whilst they eat their own, certain people accuse online gaming culture of being toxic. (and perhaps I was using rules 4, 8, 9, 10 too)

but I presented the link bare and without any narrative.

Read into it what ever pleases you.

Ultimately, they eat each other.

http://m.imgur.com/yJPWyvH

here, Bri is being perfectly reasonable but when being a victim becomes the coin of the realm, you end up with perverse incentives.

That conversation was surreal.

That was… wow.

Hopefully that was public. I consider it bad form to post private facebook conversations.

That said, I really think Brad and Brianna should try to work something out despite their mutual distaste. You two actually agree on 90% of things, seriously.

Holy mackerel, this is why you don’t engage with lunatics.

I think based on the last couple of lines it was a private conversation that Segal then posted up. Which of course is silly since I think Wu comes off as being very calm and reasonable while Segal appears to be a nutcase.