ShivaX
3221
Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome back to page one.
The story around this revolves around a journalist called Allistar Pinsof who exposed a fraudulent IndieGoGo campaign. A number of journalists conspired in a mailing list called GameJournoPros (Consisting of editors and senior journalists in the gaming press) to get the guy fired from his job and to ensure that he could not get another job in the industry.
Also here is an example of Ben Kuchera attempting to get someone fired over their support of GG (Not a journalist, my apologies for getting that fact wrong.) : http://archive.today/TRe1C
The mailing list also conspired to circle the wagons and ensure that there was no balanced and unbiased reporting reflecting both sides of the issue. This particular group is the reason why the argument has been framed in the manner that it has been.
Apologies if I have been treading old ground. I have only started to follow this whole sordid affair lately since I have some spare time right now. I figured a bit of distance from all the initial noise would provide a more neutral perspective and a different angle.
Pinsof is also old news, by the way, and there’s more to it than “exposing a fraudulent IndieGoGo campaign.”
Here’s one of the problems with coming in late to the game: people already know what they know, think they know what they think they know, and believe what they believe. That doesn’t mean that people are any more stubborn than they already were, but rather that the impact that these bits of information would have has already happened. I think I can sum up the majority of the uncontested views so far:
[LIST=mostly agreed upon stuff]
[li]journalistic integrity is important
[/li][li]it’s wrong to fire someone for their political beliefs as long as they aren’t making asses of themselves or your organization
[/li][li]it’s wrong to out people’s sexual preferences
[/li][li]it’s wrong to “dox” people
[/li][li]it’s wrong to issue threats against someone
[/li][li]it’s wrong to harass people
[/li][li]it’s wrong to stalk people
[/li][li]those who affiliate themselves with “gamergate” are actually a disparate group of people with individual aims, goals, and pet issues. Some of them are criminal, some of them are jerks, and some of them are very good people. If you think that’s deserving of being called something as cohesive as a “movement,” then go for it - it’s kind of silly, but that’s never stopped any of us.
[/li][li]likewise, those who affiliate themselves with “anti-gamergate” are actually a disparate group of people with individual aims, goals, and pet issues. Some of them are criminal, some of them are jerks, and some of them are very good people. If you think that’s deserving of being called something as cohesive as a “movement,” the let the destruction of the English language be on your head.
[/li][/LIST]
So this guy was not fired or blacklisted for his support of GG, unless you think GGs objective is to out and shame transgender women who are struggling with suicidal depression. In fact it looks like his firing was pretty justified. As for blacklisting I don’t even think this qualifies; a journalist who melts down that publicly is probably not going to be considered a good hire.
Do you have any examples of someone who was blacklisted for simply supporting GG rather than for shitty behaviour they can conflate with GG after the fact?
Also here is an example of Ben Kuchera attempting to get someone fired over their support of GG (Not a journalist, my apologies for getting that fact wrong.) : http://archive.today/TRe1C
Weak stuff… one Ben Kuchera does not represent balance when on the flip side you have chan-organized campaigns to go after peoples employers and sponsors.
The mailing list also conspired to circle the wagons and ensure that there was no balanced and unbiased reporting reflecting both sides of the issue. This particular group is the reason why the argument has been framed in the manner that it has been.
Conspiracy! Or maybe it’s just a mailing list talking about the issues of the day. Maybe, just maybe, the consensus is that a group purporting to be about ethics in games journalism that is mainly attacking people who are not journalists and/or for things that are not ethical concerns is not really on the up-and-up.
Apologies if I have been treading old ground. I have only started to follow this whole sordid affair lately since I have some spare time right now. I figured a bit of distance from all the initial noise would provide a more neutral perspective and a different angle.
I wish your angle was different, but we’ve seen the “they’re equivalent!” card played multiple times already in this thread.
Alstein
3225
That guy Ben Kuchera tried to get fired, I knew him from years ago. Lets just say he is a piece of work. Mean-spirited troll.
It had nothing to do with shaming. The individual was perpetrating a fraud. It was definitely in the public interest to be exposed. It takes a special type of person to ignore the rights of people who are victims of crime because the criminal happens to be a special needs case. It is absolutely insane to think that being gay or transexual gives you a right to steal from people and then still deserve protection when you are caught.
Busbecq
3227
Why don’t you verify for yourself that your angle is different (it’s not, you’re just rehashing arguments already made 80 pages ago) by reading the rest of the thread?
The way I see it I am perfectly entitled to state my opinion. That is what this subsection of the forum is for, isn’t it?
That’s an ugly strawman. No one suggested that victims of fraud should be treated differently if the fraudster is transgender. The issue is that it is completely unclear how outing her served any purpose except grandstanding by Pinsof considering the indiegogo campaign had already been cancelled and refunded via the proper channels.
And then please explain what it has to do with gamergate, especially since it predates GG by 5 months. Sounds like another smokescreen being deployed.
It takes a special type of person to ignore the rights of people who are victims of crime because the criminal happens to be a special needs case.
KIA regularly accuses people who criticize 8chan for hosting child pornography as being biased against the disabled because 8chan’s admin is in a wheelchair.
Well put. So it shall be noted that on the 26th day of January, in the year of our lord 2015, in the 3194th post, Bobs Lawn Service let his opinion be known.
That said, bullshit. Someone could say “Hey, this supposedly life-saving surgery seems to be just elective surgery. I think you guys may be getting lied to.” That takes no more effort and only a modicum of decency. But no, went with the sex-change operation and connected it to the real-life name instead. Now ask yourself why.
I am heartened to discovered that GamerGate, previously a right wing culture war loser resentment issue, has suddenly transformed into #FULLCOMMUNISM by asserting that Pinsof has the right to employment from the employer of his choice.
Because the people who were being defrauded had every right to know the name of the person trying to steal their money and the exact motive behind the theft.
There is a very clear villain in this piece and it isn’t the person exposing the crime and it certainly isn’t the people who had their money stolen. That leaves one other person.
If you choose to commit a crime, you can’t cry about being the victim when you are caught red-handed.
I find it pretty sick that in this day and age the victims of a crime supposedly have less rights than the criminal. A criminal who is an adult and needs to be held culpable for their actions.
So you are saying that whistleblowers who expose crimes shouldn’t be entitled to any sort of protection against unfair discrimination? No thanks, I choose ethical capitalism myself.
Teiman
3234
I am heartened to discovered that GamerGate, previously a right wing culture war loser resentment issue, has suddenly transformed into #FULLCOMMUNISM by asserting that Pinsof has the right to employment from the employer of his choice.
Great Britain and USA are still at war over the details and assasinate of a pig.
http://www.nps.gov/sajh/historyculture/the-pig-war.htm
This is a very cold war almost sleep, so atomic bombs are not involved, yet.
Only thanks for the help of the Kaiser this war has been delayed or stopped, maybe forever.
The isle, is illegally occupied by USA, but the real owners are still Spain.
Busbecq
3235
Wow this is the fastest anyone has ever moved goalposts. First you wanted to state a different angle; now you don’t care whether you have anything original or interesting to say, just so long as you’re the one saying it. Are you lonely irl?
Whats with the histrionic fainting act? Is it about ethics in games journalism?
LMN8R
3237
And everyone else is entitled to call you out for it
No, THEY DON’T. They have the right to know they’re being defrauded, and they have the right to know who did it.
If someone stole from you, do you have the right to know why? Of course not. You may WANT to, but that doesn’t mean you have the right to know.
Also we’re not talking about any aspect of the criminal or civil recovery concept. This is a guy who wrote a story and clashed with his editors so he got fired. Who did what wrong in l’affair Pinsof?
What gives a transgender criminal the right to remain anonymous when they try to steal money? The victims have more of a right to disclosure than a criminal has the right to anonymity and protection.
But I guess we are just going to have to agree to disagree on the rights of victims here.
Last I saw I am happy to discuss the issue. Not once have I told someone they have no right to express their opinion. Are you capable of understanding the distinction between those two things?
