Brad’s twitter bio reads, in part, “Sayer of offensive things”.
I’ve seen their real beliefs to be a lot like Brad’s, in that they acknowledge misogyny is a problem, but they have very different ideas on how to solve
Brad absolutely doesn’t acknowledge that, he’s explicitly said as much in this thread, but kermitdrinkingtea.jpg
That Goldstein shit is incredibly offensive, we’re getting close to “anti-racist is anti-white” now. Brad is bearing the standard of a movement that regularly calls AS “Jewkaseenian”, and she’s not even Jewish. But white males are the oppressed group? They are singled out for hatred? They are blamed, by the government, for things they aren’t responsible for???!?!
Maybe this is like the fable again. Alstein, you know that there was no Emmanuel Goldstein, right? Brad Wardell exists.
Alstein, you’re part of the problem, and I can only assume your LGBT friends haven’t talked to you about your support for GamerGate. SJW tactics aren’t “failing”, and I can prove it: What tactics, specifically, do you think are failing?
I tend to find that when people attach acronyms to themselves or others in an argument (not in a description - this isn’t a comment against you, Alstein), they often ramp up their a$$holishness levels. Don’t get me wrong - labels are handy ways for our minds to organize things, but they can also serve as a neat trick that dehumanizes those we don’t agree with while using a pre-built crowd as a shield to deflect criticism and to reinforce our own views.
Alstein
3423
Well, some of those SJW’s are my friends after all, I understand why they’re passionate about it, and I agree with the SJ crowd on a bunch of stuff.
I understand where you’re coming from and I do agree with it. It’s annoyed the hell out of me the past few months to have my friends on either side of this start dehumanizing each other when I know all of them are good people who are passionate about doing the right thing. Especially when I think they’re all wrong to various degrees (and they think I’m wrong in some ways also)
Unlike Brad, I don’t think being a SJW is necessarily a bad thing- sometimes it is necessary, such as say, Ferguson. (my opinion here of course)
RickH
3424
As with most things those with a leftist/statist bent tend to do, it’s perfectly good ideas taken too far and turned into exactly what they were complaining about from the other side.
It’s the difference between seeking balance and equity and waiting for your turn to administer the beatings. Getting even is always more emotionally satisfying than fixing the problem.
Can you elaborate what you are talking about here? What do you feel has been taken too far?
It’s the difference between seeking balance and equity and waiting for your turn to administer the beatings. Getting even is always more emotionally satisfying than fixing the problem.
I am not really sure what you are referring to here. Who is administering the beatings to whom? I mean I don’t disagree with your generalized sentiment I am just not sure how it applies in the context of this thread.
Did you mean to quote someone else? Because I’m failing to see how anything you wrote had anything to do with the point of Brad’s that I was commenting on.
LMN8R
3427
Oh Brad. It’s so sad that even you have bought into this bullshit accusation about “painting gamers with a broad stroke”.
For someone so personally affected by unfair harassment and accusations, I’d expect you to at least thoroughly understand what you take issue with. Instead, unfortunately, it’s you who’s doing the painting with a broad stroke.
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Leigh Alexander’s first post, which is commonly accused of “attacking gamers”, is not doing anything of the sort. It’s an article talking to developers, about how the gamer stereotype no longer has to be their audience. Sure her writing was a bit hightened due to the context in which it was written, but it’s neither attacking all gamers nor saying that all gamers represent the stereotype.
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The subsequent articles are not some massive organized conspiracy where everyone happened to start attacking gamers at the same time. They are instead reactions to Alexander’s article, related to it, or re-postings of it.
But for me personally? As someone who’d probably identify as a gamer? The GamerGate shit sure does embarrass me and make me want to thoroughly separate myself from it. Perhaps if you spent more time empathizing with victims instead of trying to justify why their complaints aren’t important and tacitly victim blame and accuse people like Zoe Quinn of not being genuine, it could try to make things better.
The gaming world needs more CEOs and other people with actual loud voices condemning GamerGate, not justifying its existence.
Oh. Never mind. Fuck that.
Jesus Christ, you’ve totally gone off the deep end. How sad, I used to like Stardock.
How much time have you spent publicly decrying the writers and journalists here? For all the nonsense claiming this is about “ethics in games journalism”, how convenient that you have a women to blame for the alleged ethical misdeeds.
Have you ever once used the name “Nathan Grayson” in any post or tweet you’ve made?
Enidigm
3428
I only really got drawn back into this thread because of the nonsense about Zoey Quinn and literally though that “omg it’s a f’ing Oroborous” of argument. LMN8R has done a superlative job showing how all these accusations are baseless, and besides, she could’ve slept with everyone in Valve and still not merit the amount of attention she has received. So i hope that Brad, PWK and others can let these old arguments go here at Qt3 since I myself am in no hurry to see them hashed out over and over again endlessly.
Enidigm
3429
The main GamerGate argument about Ethics in Journalism is nonsense anyway, and which if you read between the lines, i argue, that it’s really a culture war issue than any meaningful problem with game journalism. Game journalism is itself famous for biting the hand that feeds it more than most industries anyway, and certainly is the most so of all that i know myself. Certainly automotive, tech, film and music are worse in their being “in bed” with the industries they cover than games journalism, and typically when a publication IS that bad in gaming the staff tends to evaporate rather quickly. Something about the self-effacing nature of gaming makes criticizing games more likely. And some of the most vocal supporters of GG/ unconventional new media like Total Biscuit are some of the worst abusers of being in bed with industry! The whole thing is nonsense.
The problem with games journalism if there is one is more that the readers/viewers really want previews more than criticism.
One reason I keep asking #GGers and their defenders to get specific is that they can’t.
The actual outrages here, the “shit tactics” mob bullying, seem to be:
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AS making youtube videos offering criticism of the portrayal of gender roles in video games.
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Alexander writing a snarky article about the breadth of the actual video game playing demographic, which is much larger than capital-G “Gamers”
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That guy getting asked, politely, if he could put in black skin textures for Kingdom Come.
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One The Verge article was a little hyperbolic about that scientist’s ugly shirt
is there something else? Is there any actual wrongdoing? Is there any actual censorship, actual corruption, actual anything?
But for me personally? As someone who’d probably identify as a gamer? The GamerGate shit sure does embarrass me and make me want to thoroughly separate myself from it. Perhaps if you spent more time empathizing with victims instead of trying to justify why their complaints aren’t important and tacitly victim blame and accuse people like Zoe Quinn of not being genuine, it could try to make things better.
#GamerGate is self-defeating in this way. It’s teaching a lot of people that like video games that they aren’t “gamers”. Not a great long term PR strategy.
.
See that?
That’s the world smallest violin playing for Zoe Quinn, her Patreon account and the role of Blessed Virgin Martyr of the Just Gamers that she has chosen to adopt. She’s been directly interacting with and trolling #gamergate since its inception and making a living off of the abuse she received from it and at no point has she accepted that Twitter and the internet are mechanisms that facilitate anonymous abuse on an industrial scale and perhaps, I don’t know, not log in for a few weeks?
“Every time i jump in the sewer I get covered in shit!”
No, internet culture is not going to magically change, no one is going to stop what they are doing and there’s absolutely no chance that the concept of anonymous abuse is going to go away. Whats fairly obvious is that anti-GG have never actually offered a solution to abuse and gamergate other decrying social issues and cultures. In fact, that’s the crux of the entire SJW/Anti-GG argument, “oh those gamers are beastly, i wish they wouldnt be such rotters, society must change!” That’s not even a solution, its a pipe dream. Where are the technological solutions from all these SJW developers? Oh, I guess TWINE isnt suitable for building secure messaging infrastructures.
You obviously missed what Coca-Cola can do for the internet.
http://youtu.be/ibgvkXm9Qkc
Ah the American annual celebration of um… adverts and their glorious corporate gods was yesterday wasn’t it.
MORE SNICKERS MORE COKE
to quote a certain comedian.
Yes… why doesn’t she just succumb to the harassment and flee the internet? Why won’t the victims of GG just lie down and die?
BTW the “profit motive” is bunk. There is basically no money in this fight. Sarkeesian raised like 150 grand in almost 3 years, and the patreons are basically sad trickles of income.
No, internet culture is not going to magically change
Agreed it takes some actual effort. Like you have to actually SAY things, and stand firm in the face of abuse.
Whats fairly obvious is that anti-GG have never actually offered a solution
anti-GG is simple disapproval of gamergate and it’s tactics. The solution is disapproval, expressing that disapproval, and expressing support for those who are attacked. To give a parallel example, if a majority of people disapprove of racism eventually it becomes marginalized and driven underground, and the views of racists no longer get any credit.
When I was a kid, bullying, while not okay, was just sort of a “kids will be kids” thing. I think we got a couple of TV show episodes around the theme, but they were more about how the sitcom kid would go to the sitcom dad and get advice about fighting back or going to a teacher. It wasn’t a big deal. There wasn’t a concerted effort to do away with bullying.
Now my kids get constant messaging at school about bullying and how it’s not okay. Bullying is “uncool” and they’re taught that bullies are people that should be pitied because they need help. That’s fucking awesome to me. Yeah, I know bullying hasn’t gone away, but it’s a lot less acceptable.
Internet bullying is still really new, so the ads haven’t quite caught up yet, but that’s changing. I’m seeing more media targeted at internet bullying and how it’s just as bad as old-fashioned physical bullying. Hopefully it won’t take 20 years to get to the level that in-person bullying is at now, but at least the foundation is there.
tl;dr - Change takes time, but the effort is worth it
If Twitter is a mechanism that enables anonymous trolling on an industrial scale then perhaps its not the best medium for a target of trolls to communicate with? Twitter isn’t the internet. Nor is Twitter access a human right.
BTW the “profit motive” is bunk. There is basically no money in this fight. Sarkeesian raised like 150 grand in almost 3 years, and the patreons are basically sad trickles of income.
A trickle? Well it probably is if you have the Van Valkenberg and Lifschitz trust funds behind you, but dropping off twitter (not the internet) isn’t going to bring in this.
Randi Harper (trolls #gamergate, writes block apps)
$2,422.86 a month https://www.patreon.com/freebsdgirl
Zoe Quinn (trolls #gamergate, Blessed Martyr)
$4,000 a month https://www.patreon.com/zoe
Brianna Wu (trolls #gamergate, is really quite good at it as she’s winning.)
$13,000 a month https://www.patreon.com/user?u=439829
Incomes pasted from Slashdot btw, not exactly the habitat of twitter trolls who can’t even spell rape correctly, and shows how gamergate has evolved into a much wider culture war in which five guys and ethics in journalism are just minor fronts.
LockerK
3438
I would like to live your life where $4100/mo is a sad trickle of income.
Yeah it’s not a right! Why can’t Gamergate drive people off twitter? I mean geez, it’s like political correctness gone mad when you can’t harass people off the social media of your choice.
Incomes pasted from Slashdot btw, not exactly the habitat of twitter trolls who can’t even spell rape correctly, and shows how gamergate has evolved into a much wider culture war in which five guys and ethics in journalism are just minor fronts.
Wow yeah actually that’s true they are making ok money there. Although only brianna is doing better than these chumps hmm hey I guess theres kind of a sad profit motive for everyone then eh pwk? Looking at the basically handful of people supporting these patreons makes you realize just how niche this whole fracas is.
No you are right for a single person that is a pretty generous income if it is just income, but from my understanding of patreon the idea is not “take this money and liiiiive” it’s “take this money and use it as your operating budget to give us what we want”. Even the Sarkeesian effect guys are not just drinking all that patreon money. Maybe I’m wrong… I really don’t know. It does seem like chump change compared to what the big youtubers are pulling in.
- Go private
- Go anonymous
- Don’t log on to twitter
- Change Twitter (no photo ID no login)
- Change the internet (remove concept of non-anonymity)
- Change all societies.
The culture warriors have gone for number 6 hoping to bring the trolls out of their basements and changing them into socially acceptable productive members of society by… attacking and ostracising them as loser basement dwelling nerds and pushing their targets to create a massive subculture dedicated to countering SJWs. Cutting edge tactics there.
