When you realise Virgil is a pretty mild representative of the SJW subculture then it might click to why some people would rather argue than acquiesce to their demands.
From the GG side there are some people, admittedly a minority, who say “harassment is bad, buuuut…” followed by a certain amount of victim blaming and wondering why the harassed parties don’t just abandon social media.
Perhaps “excusing” is too strong a word.
Busbecq
3563
People have been arguing since the 50s that a forward time orientation is racist and sexist because it prioritizes a linear, phallic, teleological approach to reality rather a gynecoid/racialized approach that would perceive time as essentially cyclical and dispense with things like calendars. The rabbit hole is really as deep as you want to go. Also you’re automatically a shitlord for using money, vaccinating, living in the US without killing yourself, using the internet, not being an anti-natalist and killing yourself regardless of who you are or where you come from, not being a deathfat, having a defined gender, probably many other things.
Desslock
3564
I think you need to reread what Alstein and I were responding to, as your replies are unrelated to what we said.
I take it you haven’t played many multiplayer games…
Teiman
3566
I find the term “gamer” insulting.
I prefer to be called “videogames addict”. It describe better this compulsion that both entertain and waste time.
Jovis omnia plena
I actually don’t think that. But I found the idea of the idea fun.
Games are really a waste of time. I use to have other hobbies, like reading literature or drawing (I use to be good at drawing). In the end you find anything that make you better is a waste of time, too. I know when I hug my mother she is happy, but anything else I find useless and actually anti-pro-active.
Before I die, I am going to burn a book, cut a tree and kill many noobs.
Timex
3567
The term “deathfat” is awesome.
Busbecq
3568
I agree. I think a lot of the current drama is about people who are very anxious about the time they spent with video games and who are busy projecting that guilt/anxiety onto people who aren’t as conflicted.
Alstein
3569
Curious, how many people know who you are when you play randoms online, and how often do you get crap cause of it? (This is assuming you use your known screenname that you sometimes use on your own forums)
In my case, it’s only ever happened to me once.
Nesrie
3570
I used to play many, and they don’t need to know who I am… they just hear my voice, and know I am a woman. That’s enough, that’s it. Until the people who instantly harass women for being women are separated from the GG throng, then it’s not a viable group. Since GG refuses to even acknowledge they have these people in there mass, that will never happen.
I read what Alstein said… but he and Desslock still refuse to acknowledge the key differences here. SJW is not a group. They are unhappy at what people are saying or doing (not excusing the harassment here). There are chunks of the GG blob that hate women even exist on their playground… nothing to do with what they said or what they want.
Reemul
3571
That’s great point.
As a 44 year old male the only game I have played regularly with a large group of women is Everquest 2 and the amount of hassle some of them got because they were women was just stupid, you spent a large amount of time just kicking people from the guild etc all because a player or 6 was a woman and the males couldn’t handle it, normally it was the younger and more adolescent members (but not always) but man the behaviour of some of them was really poor.
Saying that and no where near as bad, I used to play for an Unreal Tournament Clan that was made out of older players, we had members in their 50’s and most were what would be classed as older and the amount of abuse from people because we were older and to be fair better than them became an issue, it was just incessant, whining, whinging and bitching and it used to do our heads in, we ended up hiring our own server just so we could control it.
The anonimity of the internet real helps drive this, no solutions really but it doesn’t mean we shouldn’t at least try.
Desslock
3572
No, we just replied to something different that you said, which was that some people are prone to giving despicable labels to other individuals who have even the most remotely incongruent views.
It’s awful to hear of your experiences. I do almost no multiplayer gaming for a variety of reasons, and play games primarily in a genre that both sexes seem to enjoy and find inviting, and I don’t hang out at forums with toxic, harassing environments, so it’s only from people like you that I even hear about the awful crap that goes on. I hope you don’t ever feel that way about this forum or in any other context that I participate in and can help address.
Dota, LoL, are very rough places. And I don’t use a known screen name in those games.
The debate isn’t whether gaming culture is toxic. The debate is whether it’s toxic towards women because they’re women. And neither debate is what GG is about in the first place.
GG’s issue started out because of how corrupt and neptitistic the indie game scene is between indie devs and the journalists who cover them and the various organizations involved. Then, the more mainstream game journalists piled on and accused gaming culture, in general, to be misogynistic and non-inclusive and that the industry needed to expand beyond that demographic. That aggravated a lot of people.
The tl’dr issue is that you have SJWs like Virgil infesting games journalism and bringing their baggage into some of their coverage along with having who and what they cover based on based largely on their relationships.
I’ve yet to find anyone (blob or otherwise) who doesn’t want women in gaming. That is the kind of lazy hyperbole that causes people accuse someone of treating his employees like whores…
Nesrie
3575
This is where we disagree, and I don’t believe the foundation that is being claimed as GG’s grievances based on how and who they chose and continue to choose to be their targets. We’re talking about an industry infamous for the lack of women in their ranks, yet their primary targets turned out to be… women. As in the same group that’s hard to actually find in the industry.
I understand there are people who want to address journalistic changes. I agree with some of those points, but disagree on some just like most people do in areas of debate. However, GG has turned into a mass of thugs not willing to admit there are problems in their rank. Change is hard. And if you haven’t met people who don’t want women in gaming, you’re not wanting to see it. As a woman, i assure you they are there. Not that you’re actually interested in other people’s experiences.
Busbecq
3576
Why won’t muslims apologize for 9/11???
Nesrie
3577
The saddest part about this story, is it still happens but the MMOs are not the worst areas for the people i know, myself included. The MMO crowd, as immature and drama filled as they are, tend to be a very diverse group. This genre seems to care and cater towards women. Try spending a night in the FPS crowd like, oh I don’t know, the Evolve beta. You’d think that it might be a little better because some of the default models are female and its a new game, more mainstream crowd, but as soon as they find out you are actually a womn, it’s like some of these kids just loose control of their tongue. The worst part isn’t him though, it the middle-age guy playing support who won’t say anything; silence is acceptance.
I’m 100% in agreement with this. LoL is a cesspool.
My first memory of online gaming with randoms was in the original Starcraft, back in 199whatever. I was new, I did the terran campaign and I thought I’ll try a match on Battle.net. I was happily making my first bunker and had 2 marines when Ultralisks stormed into my base and destroyed me. I asked, “Wow how did you get those so fast?” The response was “BUILD FASTER FAGGOT”. In caps.
I used to play a lot of Call of Duty on Xbox Live and there were a number of women in the lobby chats. I never heard them getting harassed, in fact they would talk shit with the rest of the lobby.
The game I saw women get creeped on, harrassed, doxxed and stalked was World of Warcraft. My girlfriend at the time played WoW with me, we both had female characters in game. She’d talk on Vent and I’d rarely speak (mostly because she had a good headset and I did not), but people assumed we were both female. I’d get some weird messages in that game. I know she got some too. World of Warcraft seemed to be about 50/50 male/female, however, where I’d estimate female CoD players were like 1 in 20.
This is all anecdotal of course. And probably irrelevant.
JoshV
3579
LoL is a cesspool, but LoL doesn’t have voice chat, and I don’t think Dota does either. It is definitely easier to ignore shitty text conversations, compared to dealing with someone running their mouth off on voice chat, and it’s also much more jarring.
(And wow Virgil, I found myself agreeing with a busbecq post, so whatever it is you think you are doing, you’re not helping anyone or anything.)
Nesrie, you’ll never see GG act in unison as the factions involved barely intersect. Their might be some mingling of anti-SJW, MRA, trolls and “ethics in journalism” guys on KIA, but they are million miles from the abuse hurling guys who can’t spell raep on twitter or the doxxers in baphomet. None are interesting in taking the blame for another factions, and the different factions can’t influence each other. Baphomet doxxed KIAers who looked their way with good intentions at the drop of a hat without provocation. Even a popular single venue like KIA has those that refuse to admit the existence of trolls and abuse and those who know exactly whats going on. I’ve actually tried influencing KIA, condemning use of SJW tactics; mobbing, personal attacks, and other use of rules for radicals and was down voted to oblivion.
