3601

If we’re just spitballing about women in the industry, maybe one problem is a forum that clearly has a self-image as a tolerant, modern, educated place has a 3600 post thread where the only issue with consensus is people bragging about putting me on ignore, all the while congratulating each other for agreeing that we gotta hear both sides about fucking GamerGate. I realize that introspection and seeing how you appear outside the bubble has never been among the nerd demo’s strong suits, but how the fuck do you think that plays on Main Street? Out among the “normalfags” and non-“spergy” Chads of the world?

3602

Why does it matter? This is a video game forum, the whole point of this past time is escapism.

3603

Never putting you on ignore, Virg, no matter how much it pains me. You have really lost the lede, though; You can’t insult the very place you were assigned to astro-turf. Parody Jony Ive has control:

3604

Yeah, nerds! Take Virgil off ignore or else main street will look down on you for your interest in video gaming! Though Virgil, I thought Chads were rapists. Why do you want the GG rape apologists and the actual rapists to join forces? Won’t that just start the Gotterdammerung?

3605

It’s epic how Virgil has decided to go the route of, “hey nerds! The cool kids don’t like you!” As though anyone thinks an unemployed angsty college kid is cool in the real world. As though that’s main street.

3606

Brad and I have history, and he keeps trying bring it into this discussion despite both of us being asked politely to basically let the old argument rest. I am basing my responses only on what he has said here recently which is this:

I’ve yet to find anyone (blob or otherwise) who doesn’t want women in gaming.

But here is the thing, if there is a core group within GG that believes in one thing, this journalism claim, they’ve lost control of the narrative. They haven’t had control of that narrative for a long time, and they take no accountability, no responsibility and make only weak attempts to regain control of it. Laying GG to rest is not a a step to solving a problem, but it is a step towards not adding to it. GamerGate is not a viable option for this discussion. It lost that ability a long time ago, and just shouldn’t be used in discussing any of these problems, not about women in gaming or journalism and gaming. It’s a toxic brand.

Personally, I have no idea who is a part of GG, other than hashtags, screenshots of social media exchanges, and loud voices on message boards. But as soon as we stop talking about these important issues with GG references, the better.

As for solving it, who knows for sure? My suggestion is don’t remain silent or uncomfortably snicker the next time someone says something appalling to a woman in the workplace or while playing a game. I don’t care what their kill count is, what professional league they want to be a part of or are already of part of, what game they made that you love when you were a child, and I don’t care if they are founding member of a guild, kick their ass out. If they’re in charge of the group, go find another one. We know ignoring them doesn’t work; that’s been the failed plan for decades. Laughing quietly and then feeling bad about it later, doesn’t work either. That’s also been unwritten plan.

So really we can start by not continuing to use the tools that don’t work, which means actually facing and engaging in conversations and situations that make people uncomfortable. I know that sucks. Gaming is a fun hobby for a lot of us, maybe a little more than that if we wind up discussing things like this on message boards with people like us or who are in the industry itself. No one wants to take the fun out of gaming, but sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better.

3607

It isn’t the interest in video gaming that makes people look down on you. Everyone likes video games, it’s 2015. “Gamers are over”, remember?

Also, no, Chads are just regular dudes.

3608

ABC, the Boston Globe, Vox, Gawker, Colbert, The Onion, WaPo, SVU, the Guardian, FFS even the rest of reddit outside of KIA(thought the heroes of #GG have done real work exposing that as a Zionist plot, GOOD THING RACISM IS OVER).

Where is GG respected? Where is the “mainstream view” that AS and ZW have done something, anything, wrong?

3609

So really we can start but not continuing to use the tools that don’t work, which means actually facing and engaging in conversations and situations that make people uncomfortable. I know that sucks. Gaming is a fun hobby for a lot of, maybe a little more than that if we wind up discussing things like this on message boards with people like us or who are in the industry itself. No one wants to take the fun out of gaming, but sometimes it has to get worse before it gets better.

Here fucking here. A bunch of straight white losers telling each other that there’s nothing wrong with their subculture composed nearly entirely of straight white losers may be overlooking something.

Everyone likes video games! They are awesome. From grandmothers to stockbrokers to sorority girls, video games are as common place a leisure time activity as movies. But “movie buffs” aren’t a hostile, insular subculture. People who talk about Birth of a Nation being racist aren’t accused of “politicized nepotism journalism”.

3610

Though let’s be honest, I bet #GG has some thoughts on the Confederacy getting a bad rap.

3611

I am not sure they ever had it. Gamergate was coined by a guy who thought a woman was sleeping around for good reviews; the very fact that it wasn’t even true should show you how ready the founders of this movement were to denigrate and assume the worst of women, and how quickly the initial followers uncritically accepted this belief that sex was being used as a tool to get good coverage.

The idea that it’s somehow about journalistic ethics came substantially later, and even the initial outcry about that was a bunch of absurd conspiracy nonsense that mainly focused on the “creeping feminism” angle… you know, as opposed to any actual ethical concerns.

3612

I can only imagine the hilarity of the contents made by Virgil inspired by him getting so freaked out that he needed to post four times in a row.

3613

If gamers are so socially marginal then why do you care? You can’t seem to make up your mind. In your world gamers are either perpetrating a HOLOCAUST OF RAPE in dorms and boardrooms across America with their malignant male privilege and racy LoL skins or they are homebound autists who need to be euthanized.

3614

That core group of gators , I’ve seen them, and I guess they’re out of sight out of mind for me, whereas the radical anti-gators I see a lot more of due to friends of mine being of far-left persuasion (where I am on some stuff also) and posting it constantly. I find both groups to be exclusionary. With the FGC, a couple of the radical gators are people I know have caused problems in the past (the guy Kuchera tried to get fired being one of them, I used to make a point to play super-trollish against him to embarass him in my younger days)

On the solution, I agree with you that what you’re saying is part of it. I also think some of the solution is going to occur naturally, though at a slower pace than should be tolerated, as more women get into gaming, leading to more money being spent by women. I just hope gaming doesn’t go the way of American comics and shit on their female readers- with all the indies and the ease of getting something out, I don’t think that will be allowed to happen.

3615

Yup, this. It boggles me that “ethics” is still mentioned by anyone (seriously, that is) in conjunction with GG.

3616

I haven’t followed this whole thing at all, and still really don’t even understand what it’s about. Having said that, after reading the Anti GG’s and Pro GG’s posts and general attitudes here and elsewhere, I think I’m pro GG. Also, that SVU episode was amazing. Simply amazing.

3617

Those are both tremendously weird strawmen, and the oddest gotcha attempt. What? Do you not know what a boardroom is? If you are using “gamers” as a broader term there to be the plight of the afflicted white male, that rape culture backlash stinks of MRAism.

The answer to your question I care about misogyny because I’m a halfway decent human being. Why don’t you care, Busc?

3618

Soapy, here’s an example of how politicizing ruins entertainment, and why there is such a backlash to this crap after what it’s done to comics, sci-fi, etc. It’s the cringe-inducing, polemic dialogue, not the support for more diverse range of heroic characters, which is so wretched. I really can’t believe how awful this is.

[Album] Thor #5

Edit - related gaming point from breitbart article:

Retroactive continuity and franchise reboots are being used today not to shine fresh light on the enduring themes of superhero stories, such as triumphing against the odds or the ultimate victory of good over evil, but for cack-handed, tone-deaf ideological reasons that simply aren’t resonating with most readers.

This, in a nutshell, is what GamerGate supporters are concerned about when they say social-justice warriors will ruin video games. Because, while there’s no evidence that video games make people violent or sexist, there’s plenty to suggest that imagination-based hobbies are wrecked when the hand-wringing progressives come to town.

3619

Are there actually people who believe that the female Thor and black Cap’n America are the result of some deep conspiracy of political correctness? Or that overwrought dialog is somehow a new thing in comic books?

Because if so, I recommend you Google a couple things. First “Occam’ Razor”. Then, “comics sales history”.

I’ll save you some time on the second one. Let’s take the monthly sales of The Mighty Thor. In 1969, Thor’s title moved a little over a quarter million books each month - 266K. Forty years later in 2009, Thor’s monthly sales were 66k… and that’s rounding up. Luckily, two years later, Thor was once of the top grossing films of the year, so in 2012, sales of the comic rocketed up to… less than 40k.

Marvel’s movie properties are doing spectacularly well, but only middle-aged men read the comics, and fewer of them each year. The Female Thor is a publicity stunt that will almost certainly be reversed by the time the next movie is released. But it’s a publicity stunt that WORKED - sales of the first fem-Thor issue was 130K, and the subsequent issues are the best the Thor comic has done in years. Last month it was still up at 69K.

tl;dr: If SJWs are ruining comics, they are doing so all the way to the bank.

3620

Comics have had cringeworthy dialog since forever. This is nothing new, nor are politically charged comics. On the other hand, the villain in this piece being a misogynist and getting smacked down by a female thor does not ruin the comic at all. Villains tend to have negative character traits and are punished for it. And what is the polemic here? That being anti-feminist is bad?

Edit - related gaming point from breitbart article:

I think perhaps it is Breitbart that is out of touch. One mainstream comic that mentions feminism in a positive light and suddenly everything is “ruined”