3821

See I find things like this interesting. Adam Baldwin has been particularly distasteful lately, which is a shame since I’ve liked a lot of his work. But is this any better or worse than the myriad of ‘Don’t go to Polygon’ or using Do Not Link for Kotaku, or whatever that Gamergate was doing (which, by the way, is exactly what YOU just did by using archive)? If you really stand by the letting the consumer speak claims of Gamergate, wouldn’t this be something to celebrate? Isn’t this exactly the consumer speaking, by boycotting?

3822

Do you oppose boycotts in principle? How do you square that with Gamergate’s numerous boycott attempts?

3823

I don’t remember anyone implying that polygon was the name of a person or was instigating violence.

Nor do I recall any groups trying to force a conference or convention to block Sarkeesian from attending.

3824

I don’t like gg’s boycotts. The answer to speech you don’t like is more speech.

3825

I’m not surprised to see “no platforming” being applied to Baldwin and it doesn’t demonstrate the real dangers of SJW ideology like when they use it against second wave feminists and gay rights activists in my previous link, even though attacks on free speech are of course “problematic”, if i was to be so crass as to borroow terminology.

3826

Only via death threat.

So you don’t like Gamergate’s attempts to drive advertisers away from sites they don’t like either I imagine, since that is just more boycott? You don’t condone the threats or bullying either that is clear. So the only aspect of Gamergate you are sympathetic to is the powerless complaining?

What power does a consumer revolt have if it doesn’t boycott??

3827

Ironically, the “gamers are dead” articles were specifically targeted at the kinds of people who would send boxes of shredded newspapers to your house.

3828

Yuuuup.

The entire point of the Gamers are Dead articles is that the obsessive gamer stereotype - the stereotype that most gamers hate, the stereotype that L&O SVU feasted upon - no longer has to be the audience of game developers. Because hundreds of millions of people play games now. Men, women, nerds, jocks, parents, teachers, mechanics, construction workers, and every other type of person on the planet.

“Gamers” as a stereotype are dead because it’s an antiquated description that no longer represents reality. So developers should stop pandering to them all the time and try making games for people.

3829

The problem with articles like that one though, as Walypuctus pointed out, was that the way things were worded tended to give the impression to many that they were targetting normal “geeky gamers”, who really had absolutely no inclination to support any of that toxic behavior.

Honestly, if not for such clickbait, I would suspect that the number of folks who even tangentially support GG would be essentially nil. Like, this thread for example. I’m pretty sure that the number of folks who actually support the toxic attacks on folks in the industry is zero. Hell, most of this stuff wasn’t even on anyone’s radar until ALexander wrote that article and pissed off a ton of folks who probably would have otherwise been her allies if her article had been worded differently.

3830

The fact that unending harassment of women in gaming, forcing them out of the industry one by one, wasn’t “on anyone’s radar” was the entire problem. The fact that it’s now on peoples’ radar means there’s actually a chance of things improving now.

3831

Sure, but it ended up putting it on folks’ radar in a way that actually harmed the image of the good guys, rather than rallying folks to their cause. That’s not particularly productive.

3832

I have a pretty good idea what forum community sent it and they’re quite anti gg.

3833

Was it truly this bad before GG took shape? I don’t work in the game industry, so I have no idea nor pretend to about how things are. I find all this very confusing though, because before GG ever started, I can find articles from 2013 and early 2014 talking to women in the industry who love their jobs, with one saying people even tend to walk on eggshells around her. It is especially confusing since those very same publications now have an entirely different tone about how awful everything is. It truly seems bizarre to me how this narrative went from one extreme to another.

As an outsider to the industry (in a professional sense, I love gaming as a hobby), I’d be curious to hear any insight since some people here do have actual knowledge of what goes on. Obviously, what has happened since GG took shape is messed up, and has distorted a whole mess of things. Before that though, a majority of articles seemed so positive about the industry, that it is hard to make sense out of a lot of this.

3834

Of course you’d choose to frame it that way, but whether the person or people is pro- or anti-gg is irrelevant. Regardless of politics or harassment tactics/targets, the kinds of people whose passion for gaming becomes destructive are vastly outnumbered by people who still enjoy games, still put in just as many hours with games, but see it as a slightly more leisurely pursuit and not the sum total of their personal identity.

3835

It was less organized, and historically there weren’t as many tools for harassment. But women have been facing this kind of harassment independent of gaming since the Internet. There’s only one gender typically targeted for sharing creepy photos, breaking into phones, sharing personal nudes, constantly being judged solely by their appearance, blah blah blah. More people are probably more comfortable with speaking about the abuse in public too, even if it opens them up to even more abuse.

3836

You put me on ignore and still begged the mods to ban me from this forum, Brad.

3837

Womens are unsecure about his body. This why you can destroy a women by telling her that is fat or his ass/tits are weird/anormal. It seems men are unsecure about their girlfriend. I remember in the 90’s that there where a constant drip of males in hacker forums asking for ways to “restore” their girlfriend email password, they all wanted to break his girlfriend email but each one voiced it differently making it look like their girlfriend lost the password. They all wanted to make sure their girlfriends was not too “friendly” with other person.

Guys: always tell her that she is pretty and her body fabulous.

Gals: make sure your boyfriend know you love him and nobody else.

There, I fixed humanity two most urgent problems.

3838

Fundamentally, the bolded is how everyone works. If you say things people find worthwhile and valuable, you will receive positive feedback. If you say offensive and vulgar things, you run the risk of people disagreeing with those things.

Is the ask here from the #GG standard bearer(and make no mistake, Brad, you are by far the most prominent industry leader who supports #GG) a ban on DISAGREEMENT?

3839

Timex you aren’t, and have never even aspired to be, “one of the good guys”. THIS is concern trolling. This is disingenuous bullshit. Don’t try to lecture Leigh about the best way for her to achieve goals you don’t share.

3840

It’s more than games.

The identity politics/culture warrior/SJW/whatever movement, although not labelled as such by earlier generations of activists, is a huge issue, and presents real and actual dangers to progression of equality and human rights in society.

http://www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2015/feb/14/letters-censorship?CMP=twt_gu

This then caused the tumblr/twitter outrage mob some of us have pointed to as a primary cause of contention throughout this thread to do the following:

These quotes are from Peter Tatchells piece I linked earlier (and studiously ignored by the folks who have been denying in the existence of SJWs in this thread)

"When I signed, I had no inkling of the gigantic hostile Twitter storm that would break within an hour of publication last Saturday morning and continue non-stop for three days.

Although used to being assailed and vilified, I was stunned by the vicious and often untrue nature of the Twitter attacks - and by the sheer volume. A colleague estimates that I received 4,000 to 5,000 mostly hostile comments from Saturday to Monday. They ran from 8am to midnight, continuous and relentless. At peak times, there were 30-40 comments a minute."

Some were fine: critical but polite and fair. Many were hateful and abusive: homo, foreigner, misogynist, paedophile, nutter and so on. Others were threatening: “I would like to tweet about your murder you f*cking parasite.”

“Most tweets completely misrepresented what the letter said and my personal record of support for trans people for over four decades. It is one of the largest and most vituperative onslaughts in my 48 years of human rights activism.”

"I have not endorsed any anti-trans opinions. I simply defended free speech for feminists who I disagree with, which is what genuine freedom of expression is all about. ​

Others condemn me for “knowingly” co-signing with “notorious transphobes.” Not true. When I was asked to sign up, I was not aware of who else would add their names. Yet I am now being condemned via the McCarthyite tactic of guilt by association."

“Another criticism was that I am a privileged, white, non-trans man and therefore have no right to an opinion. As I replied: “I am the son of a factory worker. I left school at 16 to help support my family. Some privilege!” This just provoked further abuse and ridicule.”

“Trans activist and former Cambridge City councillor Sarah Brown was one of many people who alleged that the letter writers wanted to stop protests against “trans oppressors.” She tweeted: “You signed a letter castigating members of discriminated-against minorities for exercising their right to protest.” No Sarah. The letter was not against protests. It was against bans and censorship. I’ve supported pickets against transphobes, including against anti-trans feminists.”

Tatchell is the real deal, an activist with decades of experience, and who has actually achieved real change to society via activism and introduction of legislation.

How many SJWs are willing to go to Moscow to get assaulted in the name of gay rights?

http://web.archive.org/web/20070618233008/http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/europe/05/27/russia.gayrights.reut/index.html