and to demonstrate how GG is multiple factions and has always been, i can happily state i would fight against any move to ban Virgil from this thread/forum.
Kurina
3842
Oh, I am certainly aware that harassment exists both online and off in a general sense. I was mostly referring to the idea I quoted where women were being forced out of the industry one by one, with the implication that this has been going on for some time. Yet, I can only find this narrative to be a very recent one, with women devs seeming to be pretty positive about their work life before this mess took place. Obviously though, individuals have different experiences and maybe these were the lucky ones, which is partly why I asked my question. I guess I am just trying to find a clearer picture of how things have been for women before Gamergate happened and everything became distorted by extremists on all sides.
Your last sentence could certainly apply though, that even though things were presented as being fairly pleasant, maybe it was simply people not able or wanting to speak up at the time. I would be certainly interested to know if that is the case and get some general feedback from people who are more familiar with how things were.
Here is a pre-GG opinion piece on the subject. Trigger Warning for pwk: Brianna Wu
Here’s another and another and another and another… ok getting tired of typing now…
Quaro
3844
What comes to mind is Mighty No 9. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/mightyno9/mighty-no-9/posts/689758
A piece of fan art with a mega-man-like character as a female. Her history was investigated, cataloged, mentions of feminism were noted, and the SJW defense force went to work. Thousands of comments, videos, MS Paint images, tweets. Can’t have a community manager doing fan art with a female character I guess. GamerGate in a nutshell.
LMN8R
3845
No, I think it got a lot worse once GamerGate started. But GamerGate didn’t start because of an article Leigh Alexander wrote. GamerGate started because a terrible person (Adam Baldwin) tweeted the hashtag along with a video filled with lies about Zoe Quinn’s sex life and press influence that have since been thoroughly debunked. Adam Baldwin gave a loud voice to a harassment campaign deliberately orchestrated by the underbelly of 4chan to destroy the lives of women in games.
Anyone who claims they’re angry because of Alexander’s article is a pretty weak individual who’s way to insecure about their hobby. Same for if you think GamerGate got upset because of that article - you’re not exactly speaking very highly of GamerGate when you make that claim.
Kurina
3846
I was hoping for more personal accounts than media websites, because I can present you with just as many differing viewpoints. For example, Amy Hennig of Uncharted fame says sexism is not the issue it is made out to be and that it was men who helped give her opportunities to succeed. Then there is Shannon Studstill (God of War) who says Sony worked to lure her to the company and was eventually put on their executive team of a new studio. More recently, MCV posted a list of the top female game developers in the UK, having so many they narrowed the list down to 100.
So you can see why it seems weird to me to suggest that there has been some ongoing campaign to drive women out of the game industry one by one, and it just happened to bypass people’s radar. Instead, it seems they have generally been welcomed by their colleagues. I also cannot find any public harassment campaigns by gamers to drive these specific women out when they were getting attention. Thus, I was hoping for some personal accounts by those here with first-hand knowledge in the industry to paint a more complete picture of how women were treated before this mess started. Was it as bad as people are now making it out to be, and women were scared to speak up then? Or were women fairly welcomed by studios and their colleagues? I can find websites that spin this from one extreme to another, but I feel some personal insight would help in finding where the truth lies.
As an aside, I feel I need to clarify that post-GG, no doubt things are really messed up now and trolls are out in full force against women and to bask in the media attention they are getting. I certainly am not trying to brush this aside. My curiosity mostly lays in pre-GG times though, where stories appear to be conflicting.
I certainly have no disagreements there. I was mostly concerned with your more general statement suggesting that women have been forced out of the industry and nobody was noticing until now. It seemed inline with a narrative I continue to hear elsewhere, with people implying this has been some sort of epidemic for many many years, and is only now being brought to light. It has been bugging me for a little while now, so I thought I would respond to that bit.
As for the article though and GG’s origins, nothing to argue with there, as I’m pretty much in agreement.
There’s a certain irony here when we know you have used lawyers to completely shut down any talk about you at another certain forum…
Sorry, I mean hypocrisy. But carry on.
All the articles I linked are pre-GG, and are women in the games or tech industry coming out and telling their stories. I am unsure why that isn’t good enough for you. The shitstorms that surrounded games like Gone Home and Depression Quest also predate GG.
As for differing viewpoints you do realize that women having good experiences do not nullify women having bad experiences… your post is oddly close to suggesting harassment of women isn’t happening because some women haven’t experienced it.
Similarly, while some women have experienced ongoing harassment campaigns that predate GG and are well documented, I don’t think there is a coordinated effort to drive all women out of the games industry “one by one”; the problem for most women is the higher than normal levels of casual harassment and unwanted attention that go along with working in the game industry or tech in general tbh.
Quaro
3849
And of course a GG person with 3,500 followers tweets to start investigation of the author. The usual pattern. Jeez.
THAT NEW ACCOUNT
YOU SHOULD LOOK @ FOLLOWERS
Claire Hosking
Protected Tweets
@/hoskingc
I write opinion pieces for @/Polygon occasionally.
LMN8R
3850
Another pre-GamerGate example: http://kotaku.com/5886674/bioware-writer-describes-her-gaming-tastes-angry-gamers-call-her-a-cancer
Also: Anita Sarkeesian has been dealing with misogynistic terrorism (because let’s call it what it actually is) since her Tropes vs. Women in Video Games series started. Oddly enough, when Feminist Frequency did the same type of criticism before focusing on games, she didn’t get harassment like that.
Have you considered that both sides are equally bad, though? Because people who say offensive shit have been getting called mean names by SJWs since like, the 1950s. Brad Wardell has lived in his entire life under the terrifying spectre of being called a racist any time he tells anyone how much he hates Mexicans.
Timex
3852
Well, while sarkeesian may not have been the target, you’ve had folks on the extreme right attacking feminists for ages, with doucvhebags like rush Limbaugh using terms like feminazis. I would suspect that there were segments who attacked feminists in all kinds of other areas, they j just didn’t have the same kind of technical prowess that the misogynists in the gamer gate arena have.
So, some redneck may have attacked sarkeesians statements about sexism in some other area, but never did because he wasn’t really as well connected in terms of knowing what was going on on the internet, or as capable in projecting a response.
Lol. You’re an idiot. I did no such thing.
If I ever use my resources to shut down a site you’ll know it.
This is one written by a friend of mine that I thought was pretty powerful: http://alivetinyworld.com/2012/11/27/too-many-reasons-why/
Busbecq
3855
I don’t want to be too much of an edgelord but the only way I would ever watch a video associated with Anita Sarkeesian was if ISIS was involved.
Technically correct, you did not “use lawyers” to stifle negative speech, you threatened to use lawyers. Which, I guess, is a form of more speech if you want to look at it in a really skewed light.
If I ever use my resources to shut down a site you’ll know it.
Not since the 80s action film genre have I been privileged to witness so much testosterone.
Busbecq
3857
BF/Wardell litigation would warm the cockles of my heart, you SJW cowards need to nut up and make it happen.
You have an interesting definition of threatening to use lawyers. One would presume that a threat to use lawyers would involve a statement that involves a threat and lawyers.
Not since the 80s action film genre have I been privileged to witness so much testosterone.
Maybe you should get out more?
Great, the shit has started to wash up on our shores now.
Maybe they can rape her after they behead her! What a hoot!
