ShivaX
4161
You have to remember most people don’t understand their rights. At all.
Go on just about any forum and someone will be bitching about their “freedom of speech” or some other nonsense. They literally think freedom of speech applies to anything they say and anywhere they say it. They think they can threaten your life on Facebook and no one can do anything about it.
If you follow any sort of gaming forums, it always comes up eventually. Someone gets their thread locked or gets banned/disciplined for saying something stupid as hell and then they act like they’re going to bring in lawyers and sue everyone. Then they get mocked and laughed at so badly they’re usually never heard from again.
Nesrie
4162
Threatening someone to silence them on any platform is usually not a good thing.
So we should stand idly by if the Stormfront and Westboro Baptist people decide to make QT3 their new bastion of hatred?
I think that I would be happier with banning them from Qt3 than threatening their families to get the same result.
Indeed. However … Perhaps there is some confusion all around?
The article detailed the people harassing individuals like Prior and their families, with a quote from Quinn talking about how harassment was not free speech. This compelled Disconnected to question such claims. Then Nesrie (and this is where I may have been mistaken) seemed to indicate that inhibiting the ability of these harassers to spout hate is usually not a good thing (hence my post). Upon rereading, I think perhaps Nesrie was saying that in fact it was the harassers that were impinging the free speech (making it a “free speech thing,” but possibly not in the way that Disconnected meant).
Nesrie
4166
This is closer to what I meant. I don’t typically equate harassers with disagreement, so usually when I see harassing I am thinking bullying and threats which I don’t think is okay even on private platforms and often used to shut someone up.
Dan - I think you just broke this thread with your level headed analysis.
‘Women share their #1ReasonToBe in games, in a powerful GDC panel’:
If someone is being silenced due fear that expressing their sincere beliefs will result in them getting death threats, that’s bad, even if they are from Stormfront. But a lot of the #GamerGate backlash is an unrelated proxy culture war, the Breitbartian ideal that you can express your sincere beliefs(about race, sexuality, etc.) without fear of getting called a racist, sexist, etc.
There’s this weird cyclical thing. Firs they whine that getting called “sexist” silences them(which makes no sense), that it “shuts down” the otherwise vibrant discussion on a woman’s proper place they were going to have… and then from that premise they jump to equating being disagreed with = censorship, which just muddles the whole affair. I’m not sure if it’s intentional or just something that they stumbled into, but it’s actually a pretty effective conflation. Sure, Brad constantly whines that I should get banned, but to be fair, if Brad ever told us what he really thought about Mexicans I’d call him racist, right?
Which leads to this weird free speech = agreement standard, where explicit disagreement is oppression or some shit. And what that standard leads to is gaming culture, which is unsurprisingly full of MRAs and white supremacists.
Desslock was bragging about how civil and tolerant this forum is… there’s like one woman and zero black people in this thread. There’s a reason for that, and it involves how civil and tolerant everyone is about “disagreeing” about Ferguson and GamerGate and shit.
flyinj
4171
Well, it seems that the falling out of the two Gators making the anti-Sarkeesian documentary is delivering even more fantastic content that I had ever imagined.
The Anton LeVay guy gives us an amazing insight into the mind of a GamerGater, by posting a massive transcript of the conversation with his partner that lead to the falling out. Apparently this thing is supposed to justify how the hesher guy is completely insane and is plagued by “hallucinations” because he questions whether or not their pickup artist friend is actually a decent person or a sociopathic rapist:
http://www.staresattheworld.com/2015/03/jordan-owens-reasons-splitting-thesarkeesianeffect-skype-logs/
I find it offensive and problematic that you dismiss, marginalise, disempower and disenfranchise the voice of minorities because they do not agree with your views. It is highly problematic that you segregate non-whites and rank their opinions and views by how dark they are, and the dismissal of the significant numbers of non-whites, females and LGTBs in NotYourShield as “MRAs and white supremacists” is incredibly troubling. I think you need to take a step back,
and check your privilege.
Yeah that thing is quite a read. Honestly it reminds me a lot of the thing that started off this whole mess: the screed from Quinn’s cuckold boyfriend. Just with the pedantic point-scoring over ideological purity coming from the far-libertarian rather than from the far-left.
Let’s say hypothetically you have a Jewish person who volunteers that he thinks maybe Hitler had some good points, or a Black person who says hey maybe slavery wasn’t such a bad thing, maybe you don’t need to give special consideration to those points of view. When people argue in favour of their own oppression they probably either did not carefully consider what they were saying or getting behind, or they have some complex personal issues that might not make them the best spokesman for their group.
Such it is when you have real live minorities, women and lgbt people who find themselves rubbing shoulders in gamergate with MRA, white-supremecist, and chan-dwelling misanthropes.
Timex
4175
This appears to be a version of the guilt by association fallacy.
Not at all. #notyourshield was a cynical play by gamergate to gain legitimacy by getting minorities, women and LGBT to claim they didn’t actually need anyone to work to get them equal rights. It has nothing to do with guilt by association, it has to do with willingly holding up the banner for people who do not have your best interests at heart.
My only response to that is: Internet drama gonna internet drama. Now I just imagine everybody holding hands: “We’re not so different, you and I…”
Not really, it’s just an inversion of the ad hominem fallacy: their argument shouldn’t have any more, or less, weight because of who is making it.
Not any more, and it had grown beyond that within a few days of the idea germinating.
Now its simply Minorities vs SJWs.
A current hot topic is of course, attempts to marginalise them by people using your argument, but its just minorities and SJWs arguing identity politics. Much like this thread.
That’s the weirdest thing. What are they guilty of, by association? I straightforwardly disagree with their ideas, I’m not saying that Jason Riley is wrong because he agrees with racists. I’m saying he’s wrong because of what he says.
It’s the other side that thinks if they can find one woman to parrot their misogyny it acts as some sort of cleansing amulet that makes whatever they say inarguable.
Basically, people(and I use the term loosely) like pwk never understood the arguments about marginalization that “SJWs” were making, so when they try to rhetorically flip them they miss badly. But because they never understood them in the first place, they act like they’ve really scored some good points.
pwk, I check my privilege constantly. As everyone should. There’s this enormous disconnect(seriously, most GGs are just morons). When a man says he doesn’t see sexism in the tech industry, and gets told “check your privilege” by the faggy egghead SJWs Jewish lesbian conspiracy, they aren’t marginalizing his opinion because he’s a man. They are asking for just the tiniest sliver of introspection. To consider, if only for a moment, if one reason he doesn’t perceive any gender related problems might just be that he’s part of the dominant gender.
Obviously, that’s too much to ask. But we tried.
#1reasontobe panel at GDC.
“The Empty Chair”
Channel 9 will host a full video of the panel tomorrow.
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/GDC/GDC-2015/1ReasonToBe
