I’m not going to pretending to be all kumbaya with misogynists and racists just because. “Be nice to every other poster, no matter what they say about people who don’t post here” isn’t a forum value to be proud of. If the Gators want going to talk about AS and Leigh Alexander in the tone they’ve used throughout this thread, I’m going to turn that light onto them.
So the answer is, unlike you, I give a shit. That’s what’s wrong with me.
Virgil is the PC Compliance Commissar assigned to Qt3. Insults are the currency he has to keep people who don’t tow the party line, err MISOGYNIRACISTS from expressing unapproved thoughts until more drastic measures are approved.
See, that’s the thing. rhinohelix thinks the patriachy is just a barrel of laughs, but if I told him what I thought of him this forum would have to shut down for a group therapy sesh because a white man got his feelings hurt.
This whole GG thing is a constant cycle of:
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People associated with GG do something awful
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Decent, normal people get upset at that
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GG sympathizers whine aggressively about tone and language, demand a “civil and reasoned” discussion
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But then, right away, deny that such a discussion can ever happen. Because of how GG is many people with many different opinions, and hey, they aren’t even Gators themselves, but let’s all be nice to them.
What “civil and reasoned” discussion do you want to have here? None of you fucking cretins can even articulate what you’re angry about.
Your first mistake: Thinking this started with GG action. If nothing else true is said, Gamergate is the very definition of reactionary. The second? Numbering yourself among “decent, normal people”. There has been nothing “decent” about your behavior: “Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last?”
If you’re in the vanguard of decent and normal, I am throwing in with the counter-culture.
There aren’t a lot of people who disagree with the stated goal of the anti-GG’s. The “pro-misogynists” are in short supply. This instead seems very more more about ideological control by radicals and delegitimizing opposition of any sort, rather than actually lessening actual “misogyny” and “racism”. You know, real behavior, rather than strawmen to justify your purge and crusade.
This thread is so bad.
If it hasn’t been obvious, Virgi’s circuitous and poorly defined point is that his assumption that not actively fighting racism is itself being racist. Or misogynist, or whatever. He defines GG as being misogynistic. He also defines everyone with GG-esque ‘sympathies’ as being part of the same team, whether they are aware of it or not. So anyone distracting from the ‘just’ attacks on GG is in fact a GG supporter. Or something.
The only true GG supporter here is probably PWK. But when you believe that everyone who disagrees with you is by irrefutable syllogistic logic a horrible person, and then you spend all your time ‘explaining’ how horrible everyone therefore are, it really shouldn’t be surprising that everyone thinks you’re an ass.
Teiman
4227
They need to make a another “Escape from”, but this time with San Francisco
Also, give Virgil some space to breathe. To discuss something you need people with different opinions. I don’t agree with many people here, I find some ideas very crazy, but I enjoy talking with other people and every time that I agree with people like LMKOR8 I feel like I have learned something.
Haha yeah me and my strawmen. You’ve made it like one post since making a joke where the punchline is that the world is unfair to minorities, dipshit.
Even inside this post we see that cycle. First, you start by whining that my intemperate language has given you a terrible case of the vapors. Then you deny that there is even a disagreement here, before finally restarting the cycle by retreating to nearly abstract conspiracy theory vagueness about “delegitimizing opposition”…
But you just said nobody disagreed. What opposition is being delegitimatized? In fact, what the fuck does “delegitimized” even mean in this context?
Then, finally, and this is more of an aside: COUNTER-culture? You? Yeah, buddy, quite the radical you are. Willing to speak truth to power. You’ll go right up to power and tell them "Being in power is awesome, powerless people suck and deserve their oppression. High five!’ You’re a reactionary, not a radical.
All I’m asking from all you non-GamerGate guys who keep trying to transparently act neutral by conceding that SJWs did something wrong too, all this “pox on both their houses” shit…
What are you angry about? Can you name a single specific thing that SJWs, be it AS, ZQ, Polygon, whoever, has actually done wrong?
The answer is no. It’s always been no, this whole thing is TRANSPARENTLY a right wing culture war resentment issue manifesting among a weird subculture.
This is why people make “actually…” jokes at your expense. .
Teiman
4230
Well, SJW love to ask game developers to wear a “leftist burqa”. “You are showing too much skin of the female body”, say the Iman in Teheran and the SJW in San Francisco.
I say, fuck you both, I like it like it is.
Anyway we have problems, and we have to fight for the rights of womens. I don’t think impose on other some prude standards is the way to go.
Some people react to that, the SJW want to steal our tits and buts. Laugh if you want, we are that simple, we like these things :*D
I don’t think we have to stop being human and like these simple things, we can respect womens and still be the animal that is the human male (or female, if you are lesbian). Find a balance, that maybe is not a zero sum game.
Nesrie
4231
See what’s weird about this statement is it seems to imply that straight women can’t appreciate a beautiful woman’s body, or that there is this demand that all sexualized women be removed from games… which is not the argument from anyone but really the extremes on one side. I don’t know you can say one side is being to liberal with dismissing everyone from one group and then you turn around and do the same with however you are choosing to label the SJW group.
I am pretty sure that’s not true. Society is getting simultaneously more progressive and more permissive. Maybe not in your country? But here at least, if you wants tits and butts they are just freakin everywhere.
Don’t fear things that are not threats, or worse, don’t exist.
You two are cretins. Here is the SJW fatwa on haram game design:
Avoid the Smurfette principle (don't have just one female character in an ensemble cast, let alone one whose personality is more or less "girl" or "woman.")
"Lingerie is not armor" (Dress female characters as [B]something other than sex objects[/B].)
Have female characters of various body types
Don't [B]over-emphasize female characters' rear ends[/B], not any more than you would the average male character's.
Include more female characters of color.
Animate female characters to move the way normal women, soldiers or athletes would move.
Record female character voiceover so that pain sounds painful, [B]not orgasmic[/B]
Include female enemies, but [B]don't sexualize [/B]those enemies
The critique’s dominant concern is desexualization. I guess Anita Sarkeesian is “extreme,” or it’s “simply not true” that she is the preeminent voice in SJW games critique.
First of all, opinions are not laws, edicts or fatwas. They are just opinions.
Second of all, none of those things (which are just things to consider when making games) will likely lessen the smorgasbord of sexualized delights you have available to you in all media. All it might do is maybe, just maybe, result in some game entertainment that has perhaps less utterly gratuitous sexuality in it. Maybe.
The critique’s dominant concern is desexualization. I guess Anita Sarkeesian is “extreme,” or it’s “simply not true” that she is the preeminent voice in SJW games critique.
Certainly not a threat, and you are the cretin for thinking so.
Anita’s suggestions (the fatwa thing is absurd) are fine, but it’s not what everyone wants.
To me , the solution is if you want games with sensible armor for women and strong characters, folks are going to have to buy the games with sensible armor and strong characters. Those games are being made in the indies, and successful smaller titles lead to successful larger titles.
Change is not going to come from the top-down, as publishers are too risk-averse. It’s going to come from the bottom up- the way it usually does with capitalism. Look at how fujoshi manga is exploding in Japan right now for an example of this, or how Sailor Moon exploded the anime market in the mid-90s and turned that fandom from 90% male to around a 50-50 split today.
ShivaX
4236
You’re talking to the dude that wanted her beheaded, so I wouldn’t expect much.
The concern isn’t having material with sexual themes or sexual characters, but rather having the majority of media portray female characters in only sexualized ways while the same works portray male characters as nonsexualized and more fully actualized characters.
A game with a sexy thing that treats male and female characters equally and appropriately (for the tone of the work) is perfectly acceptable. One that has all the female characters as brainless bimbos in spandex while all the male characters have thoughts and feelings and agency is not acceptable.
I don’t think the think current concerns about female treatment in media are specifically about sex any more than the civil rights movement was specifically about seats on buses.
So is that list of opinions the thing that AS did wrong? Are we, at long last, at the start of a conversation? I guess I’m still failing to see the point in the white boy whining here.
But OK. I guess I’ll have to fill in some gaps. That’s the thing that’s wrong. That’s the threat to gaming, apparently while gaming absolutely does not have any problems with gender depictions, any attempt by developers to desexualize their depictions of women are a “threat”. Cool. With you so far. “I say, fuck you both, I like it like it is.” may be entitled manbaby screeching, but at least it’s honest.
So here’s my question:
How is that “fatwa” on “haram” game design(lol, I get it, like she was one of them raghead camel jockeys, you’re so fucking clever) different than this? http://gamersbillofrights.com/
I don’t even think that Sarkeesian would use the phrase “not acceptable” since she’s generally recommending ways to make games more appealing to women and girls, not laying out universal rules. Her critiques are ostensibly there to help widen the appeal of mainstream games beyond a majority-male audience. If a game designer were to flatly state “My only intended audience is adult Japanese men with a thing for busty schoolgirls and tentacles,” then I reckon Sarkeesian would probably just shrug.
I imagine that there are those out there that would crusade to stop certain games from getting made for moral reasons, just like there are those that try to stop certain types of movies from getting made. But based on what I’ve read, Sarkeesian isn’t really one of those.
Teiman
4240
I think this is a valid concern.
Theres nothing bad with sexualization of women, but we have a problem if is the only way womens are presented.
