4321

Yup.

I’m white, male, straight, and grew up in an upper class family. Went to a great college, worked hard in school, didn’t party too much, got a great job out of it, and held it securely and comfortably for the last 5+ years.

Just because I worked hard doesn’t mean I understand the life experiences of others, or feel entitled to speak about why others are right or wrong when they describe their own experiences. I’ve learned a hell of a lot in the last few years by just shutting up and listening instead of making assumptions and judging.

I’m not dictating anything. I’m making harsh, blunt suggestions.

I certainly don’t feel guilty about my luck and privilege, but my life has improved and I’ve also noticed a marked improvement in my friendships with people of all classes and background ever since I personally acknowledged it and changed my behavior from when I used to be a kid.

4322

Where are these kinds of articles, outside of extremist sites, Tumblr, Twitter, and the usual places people look for outrage? Because most of the GG fury is over sites like Gamespot (or god help me, Kotaku) saying things like, “GTA is sexist,” not “playing GTA makes you a rapist.”

4323

Everything here is cool and i agree with it. The way you phrased it originally seemed kind of opposite to it though, in that telling people to shut up (which, let’s be honest here, is exactly what some folks are doing when they obnoxiously say things like “check your privilege”) is essentially doing the opposite from what you are saying here. It’s effectively telling people that their life experiences are somehow less valid and less worthy of being related.

And that’s really never a good thing, especially from the perspective of minority viewpoints that are striving to change society for the better. Because if it’s OK to tell someone to shut up, and to shout them down, then it’s going to be OK for others to do the same to you, or any other viewpoint they don’t like.

I think that rather than focusing on people shutting up, it’s more productive to encourage them to listen, which is less adversarial, more inclusive, and more in line with what i think your real point is.

4324

Privilege is a term for morons. It’s an excuse to not think - to discern or engage in more reasoned consideration of an individual’s circumstances and options to address specific challenges. It’s inherently destructive, like all identity politics. It prejudges and assumes, and deliberately judges and assigns value based upon the color of skin and other group characteristics beyond an individual’s control and actually lauds that bigotry.

The best defence of the use of the term is nothing beyond a condescending admonishment to “be more empathetic,” while ironically prejudging and making assumptions based upon racial profiling and other stereotypes instead of treating all human beings as individuals and considering their circumstances alone. The very last thing SJWs seem adept at is empathy.

If you use the term, what constructive application do you think it has, beyond giving you a script to feel morally content with your rhetoric? What tangible, constructive benefit manifests through the use of identity politics that couldn’t be better achieved otherwise?

4325

Over react much. :)

When guilt of some sort is implied isn’t an apology expected next? I just don’t think guilting anyone is a way to get a positive reaction. Educate them in a way that doesn’t alienate. Even then many (I have tried explaining the concept of privilege to people) will consider it somehow an attack on them.

4326

100% agree.

4327

What is it about P&R that makes your brain stop processing the words that people write, and instead hallucinate insane shit that has no bearing on reality other than to reinforce your delusions about a culture war that exists only in your head?

4328

Why the hell the left is dominated by this dumb Political Correct shit?

The left used to be about universalism. When two countries are at war, what they send to die in the trenches? the poor, the young… they don’t send old rich people to die there, these are the ones that instill national pride and belicism from their confy chairs from very far the frontlines, so is the other people, the childrens of the poor to die, and they the ones that manufacture the weapons. IBM worked with the nazi to exterminate the jew. Rich people is of no nation, they are their own nation that cross borders, they are naturally transnational. Rich kids from Iran go to Canada universities to learn with the elites there. Butt-butt friends. The kids dyiing on the trenches have more in common to each another, than with the rich kids of their nation.

Somehow the left turned into bloody idiots and they lost this universalism trait. So instead of protecting the world from globalization and predatory corporations, they are around attacking people for the crime of saying the wrong keywords. Globalization is running unchecked, rampant, so much that it risk destroying the world economy.

Maybe the political left evolved from true left to some “tamed version” by adopting nationalism, so universalism was sacrificed to get more votes. You will get more votes if you say things that activate the reptilian parts of the brain. “Lets defend our nation”, “Our country is the best”. Its also very narcissist. There are 144 countries in the planet at the moment, the odds your country is the best is 1/144.

Then theres this fad we suffer now, where religious bastard kill people and do all sort of horrible things. The left is not condemning religion enough, if at all.

Again, has the left turn dumb? maybe to get more votes you have to agree with the combination of wishfull thinking and superstition that form religions?
The more votes, the better. Maybe the desire of Political Correctness is to get the bigger support, by not avoiding anything worth having a fist fight.

Has the left become so deeply stupid, rot and useless? So if they are so ineffectual, what else can save us from rampant capitalism? Because capitalism need something else to stay in check, or eat itself, canivalize itself, destroy the system. Bloody leftist people is not doing their job, and are wasting everyone time in petty issues.

4329

People tend to fight that which directly effects them and to which they can make a direct response. Thus social activism. There is nothing wrong with that, we owe much to those who fought the social injustices in the past.

That doesn’t mean some don’t get carried away with it.

But what is the old right wing quote…“Extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice.”

4330

Things must be different in Spain.

4331

I said literally what you claim you wished I said in the exact same sentence you’re criticizing me for.

“Just shutting the fuck up and listening for once” could I guess be replaced with “Just read the entire fucking sentence instead of starting your reply after reading only the first half of the sentence” :-)

For a group of people who often respond to issues of harassment with claims like “it’s not a big deal” or “they should just deal with it” or other reductive claims that show a lack of empathy, it’s weird to see them get so worked up about the use of a word and its literal definition from a dictionary.

privilege
[ ˈpriv(ə)lij ]
NOUN
a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people:
"education is a right, not

People with privilege who don’t acknowledge it immediately jump to insecurity when others point it out, which results in assumptions like claiming it’s “telling people that their life experiences are somehow less valid and less worth of being related”.

It’s not that their life experiences are somehow less valid, it’s that, for once in your life, maybe you should stop narcissistically focusing on your own life experiences and trying to shove them into every conversation and instead just listen to the life experiences of others.

It’s not that your life experiences as a privileged individual are of less worth, it’s that you’re not even listening to other people to figure out what they went through in the first place.

4332

I think if you look at what I posted, you’ll see that I correctly interpreted what you said, but that I’m suggesting that focusing more on the importance of listening is a better approach than suggesting that people shut the fuck up.

When you add in the element of telling someone to shut the fuck up, when suggesting that they listen to you, you make it less likely that they are actually going to do that, because it can be seen as you denying them the exact respect that you are suggesting they have for you.

Like i said, i didn’t believe that was your intent, but it could be an unintended consequence of that type of statement.

4333

Honestly the rise of privilege politics and the rise of the millennial generation are closely related, because the cry to stop being so narcissistic and listen to outside experiences is exactly what most millennials seems incapable of doing. In some sense it’s a reflection and a cry against their own self absorption, and the assumption that just as how a thief thinks everyone is stealing, the assumption implicit in privilege politics is that everyone else is as self absorbed as you yourself used to be.

4334

Why are you talking about groups and manufacturing what they say, instead of what was said here by a person? How is that worthwhile?

It’s not that their life experiences are somehow less valid, it’s that, for once in your life, maybe you should stop narcissistically focusing on your own life experiences and trying to shove them into every conversation and instead just listen to the life experiences of others.

That’s definitely a true statement, and fundamental to human interaction unless you’re a social misfit or complete blowhard. There’s no doubt some people are full of themselves, and lack empathy for the experience of others and sometimes even seem blind to circumstances different than their own. But being empathetic, and sympathetic, aren’t qualities that are enhanced by drawing assumptions and prejudging individuals based upon the color of their skin or other circumstances of birth - assumptions and prejudice obfuscate empathy and understanding.

4335

The irony is that the Spanish left really, really don’t do PC
(They’ve got more factions than this thread, but loads are under Podemos’s banner now - even though the founding movement were honest-to-god Trots. And they’re /leading/ in many polls!)

Desslock - I argue the major driving factor in loss of empathy is, er, capitalism.

4336

It’s just frustration to see the same people talking over the same people over and over again and refusing to ever listen. But definitely understood.

4337

The thing is, when he says to “just shut the fuck up and listen”, he’s not saying to do so in general.

He’s saying to maybe do so in specific. Specifically when someone who’s voice doesn’t traditionally carry as much weight in the world, minorities, for example, or women, (cue Desslock whining that you can’t identify whole groups of people like that) talk about their experiences with being on that end of the scale in a society that they have less power in. So when a woman says “hey, I don’t like men at my IT job disregarding anything I suggest, but taking the exact same advice when a man gives it” (exact quote from a friend of mine), you don’t respond with “it’s in your imagination, I’ve never seen that happen, that would be foolish”, but instead shutting the fuck up, listening and actually accepting that their experiences are valid and there’s parts of the world you aren’t exposed to because you’re a white male and society has, in general, been conditioned to treat you a different way.

4338

I don’t get how either of you two aren’t understanding each other- because what you’re both saying happens.

Privilege happens, and there are folks who don’t accept that it does. There are also people who use privilege as a blunt club to try and shut people up. Those two statements aren’t incompatible.

I think there is something here. Some of this comes from the failure of the American left to properly fight for income inequality, so the youth are taking out their frustrations in other directions in a less focused manner. Even our country’s “liberals” are too far to the right economically for the American mainstream.

4339

I think the thing some people miss about the privilege discussion is that it really isn’t defined as a thing unto itself. It’s mostly defined in opposition to something, let’s call it “under-privileged”. You do recognize that exists, yes?

4340

Thank you.

I can always improve my own demeanor of course, I’m not absolved of how people interpret my own words.

But I’ve usually seen the same general rule apply: If you find yourself so personally offended by people talking about privilege, and then you jump to conclusions that someone must be specifically attacking you and accusing you of being a lesser person, and then you get all defensive about it…

…maybe that’s a good time to get a little introspective and reconsider whether your reaction is ironically justifying the things said to you in the first place?