They’re so cute and innocent in that thread.

GREAT episode - loved the dragons.

My non book reading GF liked the Pycelle scene, as it showed him as a schemer. She said 'Ahaaaa! to that one.

I’m not sure what they’re doing with Pycelle. It seems like the point of his scene, at least in part, was to show him as being more agile in reality than he appears to be in court. But, why do that?

It was VASTLY more dishonourable and harmful to his smallfolk and other Bannermen to break his solemn vow to Lord Frey than it was to NOT wed Jeyne [strikeout]Poole[/strikeout] Westerling. It was dishonor either way; but only one dishonorable decision would cost him his life and his crown.

The sex was a momentary lapse, sure, but the decision to marry her was not. It was a pure boneheaded “Kick Me” Starkism. No pity for that at all.

Because the scene shows:

[ul]
[li]he has been in King’s Landing VASTLY longer than anyone else (nearly 20 years+ more than Varys) and has survived fifty years+ under multiple monarchs (he is a crafty player of The Game)[/li][li]he will break his Maester’s vows of chastity when it suits him (hypocrite); and[/li][li]he pretends to be decrepit so others on the council will underestimate him.[/li][/ul]

He also knows that the woman he was talking to works for Baelish. He spouted off some nonsense about Joffrey’s “greatness” in attempt to pass the notion that he is just a Lannister lickspittle, again aiming to have Baelish and others underestimate him.

Yeah … I don’t know what to say except to suggest that you step back a bit from the books. Shit happens. Betrothals change all the time elsewhere in Westeros. The difference here is that you’re expecting perfection from Robb. Robb kicks ass pretty much nonstop except for one area where he’s makes a very understandable, though inconvenient choice. The idea that this means that he “deserves” to get slaughtered at the Red Wedding is pure hyperbole.

I mean just think about the expectations people have for Robb when he first takes up his role as King of the North and assembles his armies. The assumption is that this is going to be a giant clusterfuck. Instead, he puts together a tight alliance, wrangling in all of his fathers bannermen, and then goes on to kick Lannister ass.

But people think he’s an idiot who deserves to die just because he falls for a girl and has to rearrange the docket of marriages to the Freys? That’s extremely unfair.

“I do like a violent woman!”

You two are using different definitions of that expression, i don’t know how you aren’t noticing it. They got what they deserve = they were stupid, so they died/lose. Not “they got what they deserve” => good stuff happens to good guys, bad stuff happens to to bad guys. One is about “natural selection” and predominance of strong, the other is about a fictitious karma.

So if one wanted to jump into the books where Season 1 left off, where would one start? Book 2?

It would be better to start from book 1, there is a lot of stuff and details not covered by the HBO series.

Dude, if you haven’t read all the books, don’t look at this thread for even a moment!
Take it from experience, there’s a lot to be spoiled on in here.

You can’t go into the second book without reading the first. The series glosses over a lot of minor plot points and such that don’t become apparent until the third volume - for instance something involving Robb - that you just don’t get with the HBO rendition just because they dont have time.

Whether the image is weird, it’s absolutely mythic in its scope. It’s the kind of thing that starts the myth of a god, that ends up carved into the relief of temples and statues.

It’s of the things from book one that left a strong impression on me. I think they did fine job for the most part with it though. Didn’t she lose her hair though in the fire? Maybe the actress’ head just doesn’t have a cinematic shape, but I thought that was a striking element as well from the books.

I found the Pycelle moment really interesting, since it makes him seem much more an active player in the equation much earlier than in the books (if in fact that’s been “proven” in the books at all). Good use of the new character, as well. At first I was disappointed that Dotrice had been chosen for such a relatively minor part given how much I loved some of his other voices, but it looks like he’s going to be in the thick of things.

I liked the highlighting of Theon’s fealty pledge; that may have been in the book, but I remember his turncoating being much more ambiguous in terms of how much of a betrayal it really represented. I mean, obviously the Starks saw it as a betrayal but I don’t think expecting loyalty from former hostages is anything but the sort of characteristic Starkthought that makes them such…special parts of the story.

Dany does go bald in the book but I assume that was decided against because it’s a visual medium and hawtness is more important than in the book. I don’t care about the suckling because there’s been plenty of creepy teat-joy in the series already where it was important for pointing out derangement and I can appreciate restraint in other areas. Plus it leaves room for us to focus on the amusing idea of tactical crotch cover dragon.

Overall, I have to say that I really like how they are handling both Sansa and Joffrey in the tv series. I struggled to enjoy her POV chapters in the first reading but they’ve done a fine job of cutting to the highlights, and Joffrey seems a lot more strong-willed as opposed to the books where I felt he was mainly petulant. That is, he’s more of a Frankenstein monster than a spoiled brat, and I find that more interesting for that role, especially with the Imp being his Hand.

The new, improved love interest for Tyrion continues to be right on track. Baelish and Varys were on fire with gash talk. There was something new in the tv series that I can’t remember off the top of my head but it definitely seemed to foretell a possible divergence from the books. Guess I have to watch it again!

I had one complaint last night. The girl playing Arya is very obviously developing breasts and they didn’t bother to tape her up. It looked frankly ridiculous when she was supposed to be passing for a girl and her breasts kept pushing up her shirt. Kinda obvious!

The dragons looked great!

Overall, I think the last episode was fairly well done, with some disappointments here and there.

I thought that the scene with Sansa and the heads was well-executed (no pun intended). They got Sansa’s thoughts and intentions across pretty decently with pretty few words, I think. The actress that plays Sansa doesn’t get enough credit in this thread.

The Arya/Yorin scenes were fine. I was fairly impressed that they managed to re-introduce Gendry relatively seamlessly. My Wife (a non-bookie) was able to identify him immediately, which surprised me. [not that my wife is dense or anything, but it was a seemingly throw-away character from half the season back]

The Dany/Drogo sequence was pretty decent. I thought the actress playing Dany fell short a few times: when she first woke up, the actress played it like she was waking from a short, refreshing nap rather than physically and spiritually wrenching ordeal that has caused he to pass out. And she seemed pretty flat during her conversation with Mirri Maz Duur. Maybe the latter was intentional, but rather than playing “cold” it came across as “disinterested” to me.

My wife was flabbergasted that Drogo died. After the smothering scene she turned to me and said, “Wow, they really don’t have a problem killing main characters, do they?”

As much as I thought that the sequence where Jon runs away and gets caught by his buddies was unnecessary, the direction and acting was fine. The montage where the Night’s Watch is mobilizing was very well done.

All the Lannister scenes were great – Tyrion’s chat with his father, and the confrontation between Catelyn and Jaime.

I didn’t know what to make the the Maester Pycelle thing. I liked that he showed himself to be “more than he seems” but the whole thing felt like it should have been in another episode.

The “King in the North” scene was good stuff: not only did it establish how Ned’s death has changed the North’s attitude, but it nicely got you thinking about Renley and Stannis, bolstered by the Tyrion conversation from earlier.

So the only thing that really annoyed me was the aftermath with Dany and the dragons. In the book you got the impression that Jorah went in to recover her (supposed) remains when the pile of embers had cooled sufficiently, and I seem to recall that he had to push past some smoldering timber to find her. But the few desultory scraps of wood lying here and there in the TV scene didn’t do it for me. It seems like anyone with eyes would have seen her squatting there hours beforehand. As a cinematic “reveal”, it just seemed pretty poor. The dragons looked pretty good though.

I caught that too. I expected the series to effectively ignore Theon this season (much like Book 1 did), but giving him a scene or two each week has really set his stage pretty nicely. I am almost looking forward the the Iron Islands stuff next season, and I never thought I would say that.

They really are taking Shae off in a new direction. It will be interesting to see what they do with her; I suspect they will diverge from the books a lot more than we expected.

I didn’t get the impression that Pycelle was anything like ‘agile’ in the scene or that he was aware that his whore was one of Littlefinger’s. (Also not aware of anything in the series canon that proclaims Maester’s take a vow of chastity per se; just that they do not marry or hold lands; but a small point.)

I felt like the scene revealed Pycelle as a true player historically, but one past his prime as he rambles on to a whore of all people about his past glory and then can’t recall what he started on about in the first place. Not quite sure what to make about the Joffrey remarks except that perhaps he wants to make sure he’s overheard making the appropriate bleatings for the current king regardless of how he actually feels - perhaps because he knows he could be overheard by Varys - whist likely being unaware that the girl is one of Petyr’s.

So I guess more than anything what I took from the scene, and in conjunction with the bit of gamesmanship between Varys and Littlefinger, is that Lord Baelish has a foot up on everyone and that Pycelle’s best days are all behind him.