I think he may have been given permission to do less of an English accent and default a bit closer to his own? I did notice, whatever it was. Tyrion’s also seemed a bit less awful. Or maybe it was just that I saw the 2009 Sherlock Holmes this week and Robert Downey Jr.'s attempted drawl is so much worse by comparison.
Having honor and a mistress weren’t mutually exclusive in medieval times AFAIK, more so when you consider Westeros doesn’t have Christian morality hanging over its head.
Ned Stark, who other than Stannis is the character most obsessed with honour, is pretty ashamed of his own infidelity. He clearly thinks it’s dishonourable.
I don’t think Stannis is obsessed with honor so much as he is law. The various bees in his bonnet stem from the fact that he doesn’t feel he’s treated as he should be due to his rank, achievements, etc.
For Stark, honor means doing the right thing knowing that consequences are coming. Stannis expects others to do the right thing because they’re supposed to adhere to the feudal system and do so.
Ned is clearly not comfortable with the circumstances of Jon’s birth. He hates that he has been less than honest and honourable in his dealings with his wife, and you get a strong sense of that when reading AGOT. For various reasons, it’s not valid to conclude from that that infidelity is definitely dishonourable in all cases.
I take the view that Stannis is in the process of being corrupted when we meet him in ACoK. I haven’t had any doubt that Stannis and Mel were sleeping together, it’s just that neither of them are PoV characters in ACoK, so it’s ‘offscreen’. People also complained about the tv series ‘making Renly and Loras gay’, which is also made perfectly clear in the books, GRRM just doesn’t feel the need to make every single plot-point explicit and impossible to miss.
I remember thinking Renly could have been gay because of Margaery Tyrell’s virginity, but what gave it away for Loras?
The fact that Jaime tells Loras something along the lines that he’d stick his boot farther up Loras’ ass than Renly ever got is pretty explicit.
Edit: I’m not too convinced Ned actually committed infidelity.
Mr_Zero
3707
There’s a couple explicit references, mostly from Cersei.
“Ser Loras is thrice the man Ser Osmund is.”
“Your notions of manhood have changed somewhat, brother.”
Jaime felt his anger rising. “True, Loras does not leer at your teats the way Ser Osmund does, but I hardly think—”
“Think about this.” Cersei slapped his face.
And wouldn’t that be sad? the queen mused. Drowning is ordinary. Ser Loras lusts for glory as real men lust for women, the least the gods can do is grant him a death worthy of a song.
“We’ll have maidens weeping into their wine all across the realm when Loras dies.”
He was not wrong, the queen knew.
Three thousand smallfolk had crowded through the Mud Gate to see Ser Loras off the day he sailed, and three of every four were women.
She had wanted to scream at them that they were sheep, to tell them that all that they could ever hope to get from Loras Tyrell was a smile and a flower.
Ser Loras made no move to rise. “She fled,” he said. “She and Catelyn Stark, they left him in his blood and ran. Why would they, if it was not their work?” He stared at the table. "Renly gave me the van. Otherwise it would have been me helping him don his armor. He often entrusted that task to me. We had… we had prayed together that night.
For more signs of Loras, just Google Loras or Renly. “Are Loras and Renly Gay?” is one of the top results.
There’s a lot of signs that says they’re gay in the books. I caught it reading the first time, but I know plenty of people who missed it. The major issue is that none of the POVs are close to Renly or Loras, but the signs are in a lot of places.
Med hadn’t yet been in a marriage for ten+ years without a male child.
And I don’t recall why, but it always seemed to me that Mrs Stannis approved.
Kadayi
3710
I wouldn’t be surprised if John Snow turned out in the end to either be Neds older brother (who died years ago) or one of Roberts bastards tbh.
Given that a TV series has to be more explicit and impossible to miss - I have no issues with these subtleties that drive major plot points being explicitly shown.
Given that this is the spoiler thread, I think we can say with some small certainty that Nedd having been physically unfaithful to Cat is pretty unlikely. Jon is almost certainly his sister’s kid.
Right, it is the deception to his wife that bothers him. Whether or not it is his sister’s kid is open to discussion, but it kidmost definitely is not his.
Jag
3714
My theory is that Jon is Lyanna (Stark) and Rhaegar’s (Targaryen) kid.
Wader
3715
Admittedly, I don’t have HBO, so I havent seen the season two episodes yet, so take this with a grain of salt.
I always assumed that Roz was there to actually lower the number of characters by take the roles of several unnamed and named characters in the books. IE, being with Theon in Winterfell, then being sent to King’s Landing to take the parts of either (or both) Alayaya and Chataya. Both of those characters could be completely replaced with Roz and the story would hold up, and (given what happens to them) it might even be better because it happens to a familiar character.
Wader
3716
I think this is pretty much everyone’s theory. Martin isn’t exactly subtle in his hints in book 1, and the name of the book series is a huge clue.
I am trying to recall if that was “true love” or a rapey mc raperson liaison (implied). Oh, it was the later, I seem to recall.
Ahhh that explains her wasting away (?) and dying (of shame?).
So, chances of a Jon/Dany marriage?
See, the major issue with me is that under that theory, she’s his aunt, and not by marriage, either. Now GRRM is creepy, and it’s one thing to have Jaime/Cersei, but Jon/Dany??? We’ll see.
In other news, I’m bemused that Joffrey is majoring in philosophy, world religions, and theology at TCD.
I believe it was true love…Rhaeghar was supposed to have been a ladies man if a bit emo and Lysa made Ned agree to her “promise.”
Re: EP 3, liked it but its moving so brisk…with all the different vignettes it feels like watching YouTube clips of westeros (totally not blaming the creators…i think i might just wait to the end of the season so i can watch them all at once)
Yaaarr-a is starting to grow on me…love the merciless look of her eyes. Theon’s breakdown and Sansa well acted.
Rip Yoren :( though a good last stand. Brienne…wow! Taller than Hodor.
*oops Lyanna
Wader
3720
I think it was implied to be true love (I just re-read book 1 last week, but am having trouble recalling specific passages). Rhaegar definitely declared Lyanna to be his love at a tournament he won held at Casterly Rock (ie, he gave Lyanna his rose or favor).
The way I always understood it was that Ned knew Lyanna and Rheagar were actually in love, but never told Robert because Robert wanted Lyanna. That also explains the “promise me, Ned” scene, because Robert would have been PISSED if he found out his true love actually loved a Taeragryn and carried his child.
That said, the alternative could also be true. That Rhaegar raped and then imprisoned Lyanna while she carried his child. However, this doesn’t line up with what people remember of Rhaegar, ie that he was a pretty stand up guy for a Taeragryn, and probably would have been a decent to great king.
I dont remember Lyanna wasting away, but I could be forgetting the passage. My assumption was that she died in childbirth while Ned was reaching her and Robert was fighting Rhaegar out on the Trident.
As for a Jon/Dany marriage, the Taeragryns did marry brother to sister, but that would be kind of icky if Jon really is supposed to be the “hero” of the story.
Also, Calistas, don’t forget the prophecy (the tv series should hit this next episode or two) that “The Dragon has three heads”
