Game of Thrones (HBO)

LowComDenom · 2012-04-17T07:53:41.000Z

Wader:

The way I always understood it was that Ned knew Lyanna and Rheagar were actually in love, but never told Robert because Robert wanted Lyanna. That also explains the “promise me, Ned” scene, because Robert would have been PISSED if he found out his true love actually loved a Taeragryn and carried his child.

That said, the alternative could also be true. That Rhaegar raped and then imprisoned Lyanna while she carried his child. However, this doesn’t line up with what people remember of Rhaegar, ie that he was a pretty stand up guy for a Taeragryn, and probably would have been a decent to great king.

That’s exactly how I understood it. Lyanna wanting to keep Jon and her love for Rhaegar a secret to avoid Roberts wrath. Rhaegar was loved by the people, iirc, handsome, fond of music…not really the rapist type.

Nikolaj · 2012-04-17T08:05:52.000Z

Wader:

The way I always understood it was that Ned knew Lyanna and Rheagar were actually in love, but never told Robert because Robert wanted Lyanna. That also explains the “promise me, Ned” scene, because Robert would have been PISSED if he found out his true love actually loved a Taeragryn and carried his child.

Not to mention that he would certainly have killed the child, since he’s obsessed with eradicating the Targaryens.

I’m not so sure about this theory after the latest book, though, although it’s certainly still a possibility.

Djscman · 2012-04-17T08:42:53.000Z

Calistas:

Ned hadn’t yet been in a marriage for ten+ years without a male child.

And I don’t recall why, but it always seemed to me that Mrs Stannis approved.

Yeah, but Queen Liphair only approved because it was Melisandre, the human embodiment of the Red God, praise be His name and the night is full of terrors.

Tin_Wisdom · 2012-04-17T10:06:15.000Z

Wader:

I think it was implied to be true love (I just re-read book 1 last week, but am having trouble recalling specific passages). Rhaegar definitely declared Lyanna to be his love at a tournament he won held at Casterly Rock (ie, he gave Lyanna his rose or favor).

I am actually very fond of how Martin extends all this in the series. In book 1 (and a little of book 2, if I recall correctly) Rhaegar is a fearsome warrior and a rapist. By book 4 and 5 he’s been revealed to be a fairly well-balanced polymath who apparently loved Nedd’s sister dearly. I like how this dead character has grown through the series and the “Rashomon”-like way his story has changed.

Wader:

As for a Jon/Dany marriage, the Taeragryns did marry brother to sister, but that would be kind of icky if Jon really is supposed to be the “hero” of the story.

Technically they are aunt and nephew, so… slightly… less icky than if they were siblings.

Jason_Townsend · 2012-04-17T11:40:18.000Z

We don’t know how far along things were when Rheagar gave Lyanna the tourney favour, and we’re pretty vague on the actual details of what happened even though Robert’s version is implied to be pretty faulty.

Why did Rheagar (and/or Lyanna) decide to do whatever it is precisely they did? Why the ongoing falsehood after things blew up? Obviously straightforwardly ditching Robert might’ve seemed cruel and ditching Elia would have been seriously impolitic to boot, but under the circumstances…?

Walter_Yarbrough · 2012-04-17T11:43:10.000Z

If you recall, Rhaegar discovered a prophecy that he felt applied to his next son, however, Elia Dorne was no longer able to bear children.

So, his motivations are straightforward - he is the pawn of a prophecy he is following, that compels him to have another son.

SlainteMhath · 2012-04-17T12:48:13.000Z

Lots of minor changes in these past couple of episodes, but nothing I’d take offense to so far. I actually liked the change to the scene where Arya, Hot Pie and Gendry are captured, as it simplified the whole thing without taking away any of the gravity of the situation. I loved that Yoren went out as a total badass. RIP Yoren.

I assume that was Aeron Damphair that was annointing Theon, though he wasn’t introduced at all. It’s cool to see the way they’ve handled Pyke so far, though I think changing Asha to Yara was just stupid as Yara sounds more like Arya and is far more likely to confuse people. Still, that’s a minor complaint, and it’s totally overshadowed by how great they’ve handled Renly and his crew. Showing Renly, Loras and Margary the way they have so far really helps to underline just how shallow and self-absorbed Renly’s whole “campaign” really is.

I can’t wait until the battle at the Fist of the First Men.

John_Reynolds · 2012-04-17T15:21:30.000Z

Walter Yarbrough:

If you recall, Rhaegar discovered a prophecy that he felt applied to his next son, however, Elia Dorne was no longer able to bear children.

So, his motivations are straightforward - he is the pawn of a prophecy he is following, that compels him to have another son.

But in Qarth Dany sees Rhaegar looking at baby Aegon and saying that he was the PWWP. So I don’t think the need to reproduce drove the affair, and so far we know of nothing that would lead Rhaegar to realize that his legitimate princely son rather than a future illegitimate boy isn’t the fulfillment of the prophecy. Elia was sickly, the marriage was an arranged one, and Lyanna was a beautiful, wild young girl who caught the prince’s eye at Harrenhal. And they ran off together. Brandon shows up at King’s Landing demanding justice for the assumed kidnap, and Rhaegar wasn’t present (he’s off somewhere with Lyanna).

As for Ned’s infidelity, I didn’t mean an act that led to Jon’s birth. There are theories that Ned did in fact have an affair while off warring in Robert’s rebellion.

Edit: Though it did occur to me some time after writing this post that Rhaegar did mention the need for three riders in that Qarth vision.

Alan_Dunkin · 2012-04-20T18:36:41.000Z

For more signs of Loras, just Google Loras or Renly. “Are Loras and Renly Gay?” is one of the top results.

There’s a lot of signs that says they’re gay in the books. I caught it reading the first time, but I know plenty of people who missed it. The major issue is that none of the POVs are close to Renly or Loras, but the signs are in a lot of places.

Oh yeah, Renly’s kingsguard was called the Rainbow Guard.

— Alan

LowComDenom · 2012-04-20T20:03:02.000Z

“Knight of the Flowers.”

None · 2012-04-20T20:08:36.000Z

Actually, it’s just Knight of Flowers, which is the Tyrell family sigil. But, yeah.

Scrax · 2012-04-20T20:18:30.000Z

Alan Dunkin:

Oh yeah, Renly’s kingsguard was called the Rainbow Guard.

— Alan

Speaking of which, did they pull this from the show? I guess that would be a bit too obvious.

Mike_O_Malley · 2012-04-20T20:59:28.000Z

Yes they did, but Renly still made a point of complimenting Margaery on her gown.

LowComDenom · 2012-04-20T21:30:30.000Z

None:

Actually, it’s just Knight of Flowers, which is the Tyrell family sigil. But, yeah.

Oops forgot about that. Man I’d hate to have been born in that house. Other houses have direwolves, dragons, lions, krakens, even a guy with no skin for sigils…

Mike O'Malley:

Yes they did, but Renly still made a point of complimenting Margaery on her gown.

I like the other way she wore it…

Woolen_Horde · 2012-04-21T00:54:18.000Z

Scrax:

Speaking of which, did they pull this from the show? I guess that would be a bit too obvious.

It’s probably because they never really did the “white armor for the Kingsguard”, and even if they had, they didn’t feel like trying to explain why only the Kingsuard wore white armor. (They did test white armor, but it didn’t come test/translate well.)

Renly chose the Rainbow Guard to be a sharp contrast to the white armor of the Kingsguard.

Walter_Yarbrough · 2012-04-21T05:20:49.000Z

John Reynolds:

Edit: Though it did occur to me some time after writing this post that Rhaegar did mention the need for three riders in that Qarth vision.

QFT

Aye, this. Also the prophecy says something along the lines of Ice and Fire, I presume, as the Stark connection is part of Rhaegar’s motivations.

Balasarius · 2012-04-22T19:00:16.000Z

Great episode tonight.

Abiding_Dude · 2012-04-22T19:18:12.000Z

Well that ending was some fucked up shit.

Woolen_Horde · 2012-04-22T19:56:36.000Z

Joffrey Dahmer!!!

Man, the rat-in-bucket-strapped-to-guy’s-chest-then-heated-with-fire is fucking evil.

John_Reynolds · 2012-04-22T20:33:41.000Z

They saved the episode’s budget for the shadow at the end. A bit awkward the way Dany looked back at her baskets earlier: “Look, I can’t afford to show my CGI dragons right now, so cut me some slack you fat f*ck.”