3981

I must say, even though they have nothing to do with anything in the books, the interactions between Tywin Lannister and Arya are absolutely delightful, and serve well to fill in background that comes piecemeal in the course of the larger stories. Nice touch. Maybe they thought Arya’s adventures would have been too “bitty” and required too many changes of scene. They also have a superb actor for Tywin, so they must have thought why not kill two birds with one stone: utilize the Tywin actor’s screen presence to fill in the sense of what’s more of a brooding background machiavellianism in the stories, and fill in the time for Arya’s more complex book adventures.

Oh, and I agree that Dany’s character seems to have gone a bit skew-wiff. She’s coming across as a bit directionless and petulant now, whereas in the books she’s often undecided, but that’s because she’s trying hard to weight various moral imperatives (which is what makes us love her). But since a lot of that is in her thoughts which we have access to in the books, but can’t in the tv series, I guess they will have to find some other way of unfolding the complexity of her character - maybe later?

So many cool characters and events have fallen by the wayside in the tv series, but then again the books are notable precisely for their abundance of cool and interesting characters and events, so even a selection is quite enough for a tv series. I am glad they kept Brienne in, even though, in a way, I always thought she was a bit surplus to requirements in the books, she’s just such an oddbod I think she just had to be in. (I think Brienne was Martin’s way of saying “ha, you nerds like scantily-clad warrior women? well this is what a real warrior woman would have to be like to survive in this gritty world!”)

Cersei is turning out to be quite a bit “softer” in character in the tv series than in the books, but she’s not really any the worse for it.

Jaimie is very much like in the books though, I think - a character whom you feel you ought to dislike, but can’t help liking.

One thing I didn’t like was the way in Sansa’s encounter with The Hound, she accosted him to thank him for saving her, then immediately rounded on him for his flaws - not really like Sansa and way too compressed.

3982

Yeah I’m not sure if I like the new Mountain or not. Maybe that’s his voice, I dunno. I didn’t know they had changed actors previously and actually thought that when Tywin rolled in to Harrenhal and talked to him that they were dubbing his voice since you never saw him actually talk.

— Alan

3983

I enjoyed the latest episode. I am not ready to say its good TV, because perhaps I am a idiot and my tastes are useless. But I have found all on the episode enjoyable and interesting.

Having cliffhangers is normally very TV-like, and the story produce some good ones, and the serie don’t abuse then too much. Theres likeable and strong characters. And mistery. A medieval world with good production values ( bitches like his Skyrim and LOTR) and I enjoy that.

I somewhat feel like the book-readers don’t appreciate enough this episode, and the no-book readers don’t know why is good.

Part of it is knowing Arya is going to pass for a lot of shit. And Snow is going to see all his nobleness challenged in different ways. Joefry is going to be more asshole until the End.

3984

I really appreciate their willingness to actually adapt the material. Slavishly transferring text to screen is a poor use of the medium and it would have made for terrible TV. With all the characters and subplots it would be quite simply to lose the core of the story, and the integrity of the narrative. There’s a lot of fluff in the books, subplots and long exposition that work on paper and only on paper. The show runners have done an excellent job cutting those and focusing on what makes ASOIAF really quite special.

RE John Snow, they’ve done a great job rationalizing his story and simplifying it for the TV. He’s a young man, out of his element, who has to grow up quite quickly. He just like all the other Stark children in that respect. It doesn’t come easily and he does make a fool of himself here and there.

Does anyone else think Dany is a bore? I’d get excited when I finished one of her chapters because that meant going back to Westeros and the characters I found (vastly) more interesting.

3985

It depends on which book. Dany is pretty interesting in SoS, I think, but terribly dull in DwD.

3986

Does anyone else think Dany is a bore? I’d get excited when I finished one of her chapters because that meant going back to Westeros and the characters I found (vastly) more interesting.

I always thought her chapters were the dullest in the books. They also seem to require one feature that the rest of the books characters don’t require. Time. Until those dragons grow up she is not really a force to reckon with. So how long does it take a dragon to grow enough to make it a military force. The book does say they live a long time, but I don’t remember a time table for when they become an air force.

3987

I’d say after DwD, the dragons have just about arrived at that point.

3988

ssshhhhh…that’s the only book I haven’t read, waiting for the paperback.

3989

Yeah… SPOILER ALERT… the dragons grow!

3990

I’ve tended to completely skip her chapters in my re-reads. I have zero interest in the world she inhabits and I think Martin has done a piss-poor job of writing her as well. Her chapters in the latest book felt like a goddamn chore to get through and I doubt I’ll ever read them again. The show is making her a bit more interesting, but Westeros is really the only place I enjoy reading about. Except for Dorne, which is also too damn silly for my taste.

3991

I’m curious: what do you find silly about Dorne?

That’s an honest question – I feel that the Dorne chapters are unnecessary, boring, filled with characters whose motivations seem largely tacked-on and superfluous to the rest of the story… but I’ve never thought of it as “silly”.

is it the existence of a “10K Nights” style kingdom abutting a more traditional Western Europe kingdom? Or does it have more to do with the kingdom’s origin-story?

3992

An audition tape for Edmure Tully has leaked out.

Bring on the mothereffing Blackfish!

3993

Yes, I feel the same. I just called it “silly” for short. Not one believable character. The honorable obedient giant bodyguard with the giant axe. The Sand Snakes? Please. I honestly wish Martin would write female characters that he can understand and make us understand and believe, instead of throwing in fantasy clichés. Some of my favorite characters in the first three books are/were women. No sense of place. I have no idea what Dorne actually looks and feels like and the even bigger problem is that I don’t care.

This might be because I wish he would have stuck with what he and we know instead of trying to write a history of the entire world and anyone who’s ever been in it.

3994

I’ve always been fond of Dorne, but only to the extent that they serve as a weird form of comic relief. As a serious contender in the Westerosian political space, Dorne was an absolute joke even before Book Five. I don’t think a single one of ther Dornish plots in the series have ended in anything other than disaster.

Dornish princes and princesses are constantly engaging in plots and counter-plots, and they’re so incredibly bad at them. They’re the Washington Generals of Game of Thrones.

3995

I totally agree with this and I have taken it a step further. When I last re-read these books, I skipped the POVs of Dany, Bran, Sansa (mostly - some good ones later on) and early Arya as I am not fond of any of those plot lines. Unfortunately, Martin even managed to fuck up Tyrion in DwD so I doubt I will even bother to reread that or Feast at all.

3996

wow, no shit. Now I have no reason to continue. :)

This place needs a sarcasm font.

3997

RE: The Mountain

Conan Stevens took a part on The Hobbit and the shoot schedules conflicted so he dropped GoT. I agree with the sentiment, he fit the bill better.

RE: Dany’s Chapters

They’re some of the best in SoS. They go downhill in aDwD. That said, so does all of the characters, even (especially?) Tyrion’s, so that’s not really a good yardstick.

RE: Show Choices

They have to cut characters somewhere. I think they’re doing a great job, especially when I ask folks who haven’t read the books - my anecdotal evidence is that they love the show, so they’re doing something right.

JG

3998

Blackwater:

— Alan

3999

Bronn? Check. Flaming Arrow? Check. Sword? Missing, probably stuck in some dude’s head. Bad-ass? Double check.

4000

The Tywin-Arya scenes have been the highlight of the season. Overall, I have not enjoyed it as much as season one, its still good though. I thought it started very weak, first 4 were very meh for me. Last 3 have picked it up.

Overall though, they need to get away from 10 episodes or GTFO mentality. Book 2 needed more than 10 hours and book 3 is gonna need 20+. Books 4 and 5 need completely original scripts.