Toohoo
4061
Why does the Kingsguard (it looked like Ser Boros, I think) attack tyrion?
garin
4062
I assumed it was retaliation for embarrassing him in the throne room a few episodes ago. A good chance to settle the score and get away with it in the chaos of the battle.
Toohoo
4063
What did he do? I can’t remember
I thought it was fucking awesome.
Overall, I thought it felt appropriately epic. In the books, battles are sometimes won by a few hundred or even dozen men. People can complain about how few extras they counted but the storytelling and character development and actual fight choreography were fucking badass. Unless you really need something to tweet about whilst you stroke your neckbeard I don’t see why it’s mandatory to keep cutting to Braveheart-style long shots. I thought every battle scene in the Lord of the Rings trilogy was boring and predictable - Blackwater was claustrophobic and grimy and scary-violent, and felt more believable than some hacky rule-of-thirds landscape shots with proceduraly generated CGI armies stuck on top.
Tyrion goddamn Lannister. Well, Peter goddamn Dinlkage, really. He did such a good job of showing his vulnerability in bed with Shae at the beginning, his facial expressions were hard to watch given what we know is about to happen. I thought that his speech where he wins the men over was suitably pithy and direct, like something one might actually say to some fighting men before a battle. “These are brave men knocking at our door. Let’s go kill them.” That line could have been cringeworthy cheese, but Dinklage put that touch of awareness of his own bravado on it. So well done.
Fuck you, Tywin Lannister, taking credit for other people’s work on top of everything else. I hope it’s a blunt bolt.
I fully agree on Rains of Castamere.
Sandor Clegane’s speech about how the world is built by killers was, I thought, his crowning moment of awesome in the TV version. Also, “Fuck the King.” His fire-phobia felt kind of overdone to me, but I guess that was for non book readers.
When does Joffrey’s pretzel moment happen? After the Red Wedding?
Why does the Kingsguard (it looked like Ser Boros, I think) attack tyrion?
I believe it was Ser Mandon Moore that tried to kill Tyrion, at least it was in the books. Jaime has once told Tyrion that Moore was the most dangerous kingsguard (excepting himself).
I don’t recall if the novels precisely say why Moore tried to kill Tyrion, but I think the presumed reason is that Cersei told him to make sure that Tyrion doesn’t survive the battle.
My question for those who have a better recall of the novels –
Was the confrontation between Bronn and the Hound in A Clash of Kings? I don’t recall it.
I’m not sure why Sandor would bother with Bronn, and I’m really confused why Bronn would rise to the bait. Bronn is an superb fighter, but his entire life philosophy is that he only fights for survival or if Tyrion pays him. And even with payment, there are limits to what he’ll attempt (i.e. No Mountain Fighting).
In addition, why would the writers spend time showing this confrontation? There’s so much good stuff to show, why bother when Sandor is about to leave King’s Landing permanently. These two are never going to meet again unless it is in book six or seven. On the other hand, GRRM did write this episode – and it seems clear to me that GRRM wanted to spend some time giving the Hound some definition so maybe Bronn is just used because he had to have a conversation with someone.
Of course, maybe it is in ACOK after all. If so, did the scene happen close to what was portrayed in the last episode?
Hammet
4067
It was not. The first time we actually meet The Hound during the battle is more or less when he’s been routed by the wildfire.
I think there’s several reasons. One, the actor playing Bronn used to be a singer and they wanted to show that Rains of Castamere is “The Lannister Song”. Two, I think Martin wanted to hammer home how completely fearless, aggressive and violent The Hound is, something the show hasn’t actually been doing much, so that his rout becomes more dramatic. They’re about to come under siege and here he is picking a fight for no good reason whatsoever. Three, The Hound will probably feature quite a lot in Season 3 and Bronn is one of the characters used in the series taking on multiple minor tasks from other minor characters. As I recall he’s also becoming a lord of some importance in the last book.
And finally I hope that it means that Martin has more in store for Clegane and won’t leave him a crippled monk for the rest of the story.
Well…
In the books (obviously spoilers)
In the book the bulk of Stannis’ forces are on the opposite bank of the river (coming out of the Kingswood), including Stannis himself. When Tyrion saves the day at the gate and his wildfire and river chain save the day on the water, the unexpected side effect is the bridge of wrecked hulks the chain makes between the far bank and the mud gate. Stannis’ forces begin to pour across this bridge, making it look like defeat will be snatched from the jaws of victory. Then a mysterious force appears on the far bank, cutting into Stannis’ men and causing panic. It seems to be Renly’s ghost (whomever it is is wearing his distinctive green armor and stag helmet) leading a host of bannermen to save King’s Landing. Stannis is routed, and he and most of his foot and horse escape in the ships of Salladhor Saan, the Lysene that Davos hired to provide rear support for the fleet (as Saan’s ships never entered the river, but remained in Breakwater Bay).
Anyway, “Renly’s Ghost” later turns out to be Loras Tyrell in Renly’s armor. The host was Tywin’s forces brought down from Harrenhall. Tywin had let it be known that his forces were going to go after Robb Stark, but that was a ruse designed to throw off the spies he knew wer ein his camp, and he took the bulk of his forces south instead to King’s Landing knowing he could defeat Stannis there by crushing him between his army and the walls of the city.
I enjoyed it. Yes, it suffered from only having 30-odd guys try and depict an epic battle, but they did a good job with the fleet and especially the landing boats to make you think that it was a pretty big army coming to crush the sparsely-defended city.
The writing was surprisingly good – and by this I mean that GRRM didn’t take the lazy way out and simply parrot back what he originally wrote, but instead gave us new dialog more suited for where the show has gone. In particular:
I really like how they’ve given Stannis more character here. His line on boat where he corrects the terrified soldier’s estimate of how many of his men will die was great - it showed him as both an aware and ruthless commander. Although the book-Stannis is almost completely unsympathetic, I find myself kind of liking the show-Stannis and thinking, “Yeah, he’d make a pretty good king.”
I really liked the Shae/Cersai scene in the holdfast. The look of relief on Shae’s face when Lancel bursts in and basically saves her from discovery was great.
Joffrey on the battlements was pretty good too. Straight from the book, essentially, but I liked how both Tyrion and Lancel were both leaning towards him, urging him to make the right choice and stand up as a king. “Come on dude, you’re a scumbag, but you could still redeem yourself… come on… aw, crap.”
The Bronn/Clegane scene was best for how it showed two different approaches to tough-guy leadership; Bronn with his easy swaggering competence, and the Hound with his no-nonsense bullying presence.
Finally, I was really impressed with the wildfire explosion. I know a lot of people are denigrating it as just another big boom, but the frames where the ships lean away from the blast and the ones where Davos’ flagship is disintegrating (along with his son) were well-done. The only quibble I have with it is that the book’s description of the similar blast imbued it with a malevolent intelligence of sorts (or at least Davos’ vision of it did), and I didn’t see any evidence of that in the fairly stock explosion-effect.
small corrections
[spoiler]It was Loras’ older brother, Garlan, who wore Renly’s armor. He was closer in size since he’s broader in teh chest than his more famous younger brother.
Also, Tywin did attempt to go west after Robb since the latter was pillaging his lands and gold mines. Which was the Stark plan, bait him west and force him into a battle on ground chosen by Robb and the Blackfish. But Edmure, Cat’s brother, his pride stung by his earlier defeat by Jaime, disobeyed orders and refused to let Tywin’s army cross a river near Riverrun, which prevented him from heading west. So when word arrived of Stannis marching, he was able to reach King’s Landing in time.[/spoiler]
eyeroll.gif
Spartacus ---------------------------> that way. Not all of us need a steady stream of jack-off material in our fantasy series.
Scuzz
4072
I can’t believe how many people on this thread think the battles in the LOTR movies were overdone. They were epic people, epic. Maybe too long and the surfing elf was a bit much but the battles were awesome.
jg93
4073
If you think this series has too many boobies and too much blood you clearly haven’t read the books - this keeps of their tone pitch fucking perfectly.
If you think this episode was ‘lame’ because you decided to over analyze every shot then you should go back to watching the Gossip Girl or something.
Seriously - we have here an epic, sprawling, amazing (adult) fantasy series on tv and you guys come nitpick it to death like a bunch of spinsters with 50 cats who lost their knitting needles. I for one hope it keeps going until the books run out.
I have no problem with the source material – I’ve read all of the books, enjoyed the lot of them (wandering, meandering characterization & plot & all). I don’t even mind the limitations imposed on the TV series by budget and time, and, in fact, prefer a lot of the editorialization of the TV series. Like I said, GRR wandered a lot in his books, and there was a lot of chaff. Last night’s episode was fine, and I wanted more.
I don’t really like the occasional dip into Spartacus territory, though. It’s pandering to the LCD, and it’s unnecessary. You can convey the horrors of war without loving closeups, and you can convey loving closeups without actors grunting over each other. I mean, sincerely – Bronn stripping the whore in last night’s show – what was the point? We know he likes wine, women, and song. No, the show’s producers knew that we needed TITTAHS to keep the mouth-breathers happy. So we got TITTAHS. And, if you’re all for realism, the whores of the middle ages did not have those nice, hard bodies.
Yeah, but they went on for what seemed like (and probably was) hours. And yes, the elfs were annoying, but mainly I just think that they focused too much on the battles.
Scuzz
4076
If you think this series has too many boobies and too much blood you clearly haven’t read the books - this keeps of their tone pitch fucking perfectly.
I hear this complaint a lot from people who haven’t read the books and don’t realize that the sex isn’t something HBO made up for the show. But it does seem like HBO has a quota system.
EW has the scoop on who’s new in Season 3
– Mance Rayder: We’ve heard about him all season. A former member of the Night’s Watch who became the “King Beyond the Wall,” the leader of the Wildlings.
– Daario Naharis: A confident and seductive warrior.
– Jojen Reed; Meera Reed: A teenage brother and sister duo with special insights.
– Edmure Tully: A brash young member of the Tully family.
– Ser Brynden Tully (The Blackfish): Catelyn Stark’s uncle.
– Lady Selyse Florent: Stannis Baratheon’s wife.
– Shireen: Stannis’ daughter.
– Olenna Redwyne (The Queen of Thorns): Margaery Tyrell’s sharp-witted grandmother.
– Beric Dondarrion: A skilled knight who is the leader of the outlaw group Brotherhood Without Banners.
– Thoros of Myr: A red priest who follows the same religion as Melisandre.
– Tormund Giantsbane: A Wildling raider.
We’re getting the Reeds!!!
rowe33
4078
Exactly, we have an epic sprawling dark fantasy series that is being completely dumbed down to a 13 yr old boy level in some ways. Why? What’s the point of having Littlefinger wipe cum off of a whore’s mouth? What does that add to the story at all? Nothing. We have reams of characters and character development that’ve been cut out of the show just so we can have gratuitous sex scenes that the porn fans could easily watch for free online. There’s “adult” and there’s “adult done well.” Game of Thrones seems to really struggle with deciding which one it wants to be.
I have no problem with boobs, no problem with blood/violence, but come on, DO IT WELL. Don’t just throw it in there as filler or to try and grab the apparently highly sought after Spartacus demographic.
Medieval Fantasy Theatre 3000?
I dunno, I like Spartacus. No problem with nudity or scenes of cum being wiped off or whatever in either show. But … Starz push Spartacus that way on purpose (they also insisted Party Down incorporate an episode catering to a porn convention) and it’s some obvious pandering beyond what might be strictly necessary to convey the time and place of the show.
In GOT I think there might be some expectation that HBO are above doing that, but I’m not sure they are. I think it comes off as pandering in cases where, say, they insert nudity and fucking into scenes it never took place in the book. Or, say, remove nudey/sex scenes between Ned and Caitlin and add them scenes with more attractive young people instead. If you want to look grim and grimey then show us floppy old cocks and tits rolling around the screen, show us filthy starving people, people with goiters, whatever other medieval ailments you can find. But nope … it’s models. Always models. Very realistic.
And yeah, for some reason Spartacus’s routine dismemberment/defacement of human bodies looks and works rather a lot better than anything shown in the big budget GOT finale.
We get The Queen of Thorns!! Always enjoyed her in the books. I wonder who they’ll pull in for Mance?
