I always felt that Dany’s repulsion to slavery and mistreatment of smallfolk was her break point for not giving a shit about honor or any debts.
I think it’s clearer in the books, but Daenerys is never fond of slavery and caste systems to begin with, and Astapor pretty much cements her hatred of such when she learns exactly how it is that Unsullied are made. I see her dealings with the slavers of Astapor as less her being dishonest and more her wanting to eradicate an evil from the world, and using the Unsullied to do it is simply poetic justice. The fact that she frees them directly afterwards, and allows that anyone who likes can leave as a free person (she says this to both the Unsullied and the thousands of slaves she frees in the city) shows that her ultimate goal wasn’t just to get a “free” army out of the deal, but to genuinly right a wrong and improve the lives of the people she was trying to help. I doubt the TV show will dwell on this as much as the books did, but a large part of Daenerys character development over this period is her coming to terms with the reprecussions of her decisions and the responsibility that goes with them.
I thought the episode last night was fantastic, the best yet this season. I also agree that the Theon stuff was the weakest part, but I think the show writers needed a way for Theon to come clean BEFORE all the horrible stuff happens to make him a more sympathetic character. The “helper” was certainly Ramsey Bolton, and killing 3 of his father’s less useful men to further his own ends certainly wouldn’t be beneath him. Between Theon, Jaime and Varys, last night was all about making characters you thought you hated into far more sympathetic ones. Also enjoyed the little shout out to Pod’s adventures last week and Varys’ reference to him as a “prodigy”. Go Pod! LOL.
Who the heck hates Varys?
Agreed. Astopor presented one of those rare cases in which the ends clearly justified the means. By sacking the city, Dani simultaneously demonstrated her qualities as an independent leader to her own “court” and established a reputation as a righteous ruler that has internalized the principle of service. I imagine that she must have felt little regret at destroy a society that she deemed morally repugnant, especially after having been insulted personally by its leadership. If you want to go as far as macro-level analysis (although I don’t think it figured into Martin’s writing of the scene), Dani is also a teenager, prone to impulsive decision-making. This was impulse (and genius) at its best, even if it percolated a while after the initial spark of inspiration.
Maybe hate is too strong a word for him, but I would imagine many non-book folks find him fairly shifty and creepy at this point in the story (as they should, given that he’s “the Spider”). I also forgot Sandor. His story arc is heading down a more sympathetic path now as well.
One of the things the TV show did better than the books was the reveal that Daenerys spoke the language and had heard everything that the unsympathetic slaver had been saying all this time. In the book (since it was from her POV), we knew the whole while, but in the show everyone’s looks of “Holy shit, she speaks Valyrian!” were priceless.
I was amused by the whole Pod/prodigy thing… though I still think it would have worked better as a scheme thought up by Tyrion.
Great episode all around though.
One of the things the TV show did better than the books was the reveal that Daenerys spoke the language and had heard everything that the unsympathetic slaver had been saying all this time. In the book (since it was from her POV), we knew the whole while, but in the show everyone’s looks of “Holy shit, she speaks Valyrian!” were priceless.
IIRC in the books the slaver spoke in the giscari tongue, which dany doesn’t know. valyrian is a kind of lingua franca in Essos, like latin in the middle ages.
I still don’t think it works though. For one thing, all he does is realize how big of a mistake he made. It’s a mistake that is permanent, there is nothing he can do to fix it or make it right. So in effect his realization of his error is completely meaningless, since he is in that realm of being beyond redemption. In terms of being sympathetic, I think he pretty much had as much sympathy as he was ever going to have just by his position, which was a difficult one. He’s a Greyjoy raised by Starks, which leaves him where? I felt bad for him because of that, but once he made his choice then he, as a character, has to live with that. I have no sympathy for him now, just because he now knows “Oops, I messed up”. It comes across too much like he is upset more that things didn’t work out rather than being upset at the things he did.
Plus I think it undercuts this elaborate trick this guy played on him. Theon is so absorbed in his own thoughts that when the trap is sprung he’s only reacting to the knowledge of the pain that awaits. What fun is there is watching someone get scammed if the victim isn’t even paying attention while the scam is going on?
Hmm. This last episode now makes Margaery my favorite character. I mean, it’s heavy-handed manipulation and all, but the Queen of Thorns/Margaery combo is just a killer. Tywin sees it coming, of course, but he’s obviously busy.
No, Kraznys speaks in “High Valyrian” in the books too. He believes that she is ignorant of the language – possibly because he thinks of her as a Westerosi, or possibly because he thinks of her as a Dothraki. I think there might have been some mention that High Valyrian, not unlike High Latin, would only be spoken by the uppermost of the upper class, but I might be misremembering that.
I need a refresher. How did the Hound get captured?
Eh, my friends and I all saw that coming an episode ago (or whenever they first showed up and talked to the slaver). It’s such a TV/movie cliche that when someone is being even remotely evil/dishonest/mean/mysterious in an apparently foreign language, someone from the other side will always reveal eventually that they were fluent the whole time. It didn’t bug me, but I can’t imagine that many people were caught off guard by the reveal.
Funny that the actress is basically playing a variation of her role as Ann Boleyn from the Tudors series.
Djscman
4434
The Hound renounced his Kingsguard oath and ran away because Stannis’s forces were using too much fire in the King’s Landing siege. He made his way north. At one point he fell asleep and the Brotherhood without Banners caught him. They may have used a rope. This was all offscreen.
So Simon from Misfits is Ramsay huh. He can do the creepy stuff pretty well. Also, Owen from Torchwood killed Craster! Maybe David Tennant will be the Red Viper or something.
Razgon
4436
I find there are too many people and things crammed into each episode for my taste. I was reading you peoples exclamations about how great this episode was, and its really only the last 10 minutes that are great (in my opinion), but thats what the guys behind Game of Thrones does so well- End with cliffhangers, since thats what people remember. Remember the first episode and the “holy shit” moment there?
Last nights episode was fine, but it was also a plethora of things all mashed together, leaving me slightly annoyed actually. I know this is how the books work, but MAN there are a LOT of people in the show.
It’s starting to feel more like TV to me, less cinematic somehow.
Teiman
4438
Maybe we can kill a few of them :D
I don’t say this often, but LOL - literally.
So this season started off so good that it inspired me to finally read the books, and I’ve gone through the first 2 in the past week. I’m pretty sure I want to let the 3rd season play out before burning through ASOS, but it’s tempting. Mostly I just wanted to comment on a few things I noticed while reading these books:
1). They are written with such visual efficiency that the transition to film isn’t just natural, it’s expected.
2). Martin’s elbows are in your ribs from cover to cover. I thought the show was kinda jovial at times, but the books are a good 50% intentional comedy by volume. I don’t think I’d use the word “grimdark” to describe it (and not just because “grimdark” a stupid word).
